The Criminalization of Everyday Life • Hacker News Board

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#131

Post by evacuationdrill » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:01 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #52

MrZongle2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True; there are the tinfoil hat types that believe that there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll, and then there are those that believe Bigfoot killed Kennedy with the mind powers he learned from the Lizard People of Zeta Reticuli B. Edit: from the downvotes, I can only assume that I've offended the Bigfoot fans.

"from the downvotes, I can only assume" Separately, as a karma strategy, it makes sense to upvote something that you reply to (regardless of whether you agree or disagree) as it tends to make your reply higher up (because the parent comment is higher up) and get more visibility which in theory should result in more karma.

I do this, but I justify it by thinking that the thread was important enough to me to reply to, so I should vote. I don't care about karma, but I'm more likely to get replies, or so I hope.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#132

Post by Houshalter » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:07 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #22

I can't say I'm exactly surprised. If you ran a police department, you're not about to turn down a free tank -- I mean, how cool is that, toys for the boys?!?! What's bothersome is that a police department is allowed to do this. That DoD rules don't prohibit selling/giving military equipment to police departments. That state legislatures don't prohibit it. A police department, like any organization, is always going t…

Whats wrong with a police department having a tank? I'd say it's a waste of money, but if it's completely free there's no downside.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#133

Post by foxhop » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:07 PM UTC

My small town is gearing up as well ...

http://waterford.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/waterfor...

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#134

Post by bananacurve » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

memracom wrote: post #118

Americans really should learn more about the Soviet KGB and its predecessor, the NKVD, and how they ran a campaign of terror against citizens who did little more than have a different opinion of how the country should be run. Because now that America no longer compares itself to the Soviet Union, this is the kind of police state that is being constructed in the USA. Meanwhile, in Russia, the place where the Soviet sy…

>In Russia people have more personal freedoms with respect to the state than they do in the USA.

How it is possible for someone to reach such a stupendous level of confusion boggles the mind. Even if the Russian propaganda minister were to make such a declaration he surely isn't deluded enough to believe it to be true.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#135

Post by VladRussian2 » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:11 PM UTC

salient wrote: post #74

sliverstorm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real tinfoil types believe that the government cloud research facility in Alaska controls the weather globally and can cause earthquakes and tsunamis on command. We don't have any indication to believe that's true yet.

The funny thing is that we're probably just a few decades away from doing that , too.

well, as long as your thermonuclear nuke's seismic wave signature looks like tremor(s) of an earthquake, planting/burying it near continental plate dividers deep in the ocean should do the trick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale#Example...

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#136

Post by dgesang » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:12 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #13

The 'good old days' had drug dealers and violence, don't kid yourself. It got covered up and ignored. What is a police dept to do, when the crimes are escalating? Its simple to chide Warren County (or whoever); but who are you to say the next bombing or public rage will not occur there? The others were in similar places; no place is safe.

Crimes are escalating because bagatelles are being treated as crime. Besides that, overpolicing will not save you from terrorism, it will only lead to people being more afraid of the police and thus creating terror itself.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#137

Post by MrZongle2 » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #51

MrZongle2 wrote: post #5

When I read something like this, I always think back to when I would see some tinfoil-hat type ranting on Usenet 20 years ago about the growing surveillance/police state in America. It was generally eye-rolling or unintentionally hilarious stuff. What's depressing is that it's starting to look like they were right.

"I would see some tinfoil-hat type ranting on Usenet 20 years ago" Ok then so how many "tinfoil-hat type rantings" have not come true? It's easy to say "I had a feeling I should have bought that stock" without acknowledging all the stocks that you didn't buy that didn't go up in price. Or the ones you did that didn't go up in price.

Ok then so how many "tinfoil-hat type rantings" have not come true?

A safe bet would be: many, many more.

But does that make the ones that have any less troubling?

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#138

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #132

crazygringo wrote: post #22

I can't say I'm exactly surprised. If you ran a police department, you're not about to turn down a free tank -- I mean, how cool is that, toys for the boys?!?! What's bothersome is that a police department is allowed to do this. That DoD rules don't prohibit selling/giving military equipment to police departments. That state legislatures don't prohibit it. A police department, like any organization, is always going t…

Whats wrong with a police department having a tank? I'd say it's a waste of money, but if it's completely free there's no downside.

Are you serious? Do you not understand the implications of arming a local police force as if they were the military? That's terrifying.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#139

Post by mcantelon » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:18 PM UTC

The post-911 federal gov has been directing resources towards building a domestic counter-insurgency apparatus and promoting a culture in law enforcement conducive to their inclusion in it. You don't spend over a decade building something without a reason. So what's the reason? Needless to say, if the founding fathers were around today they'd be pondering a strategy to resist it.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#140

Post by blah32497 » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 9:19 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #61

I wish people would move beyond 1984 and quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment [1]. There is a much deeper-rooted problem in society than mass surveillance or militarization of police. It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance. We accept and welcome our controllers. Foucault wrote about the effects of prisoner mindset in society in the 1960-70s. Our subjugation and tolerance to au…

mass surveillance =/= authoritarianism

This is a false equivalence that keeps being brought up on HN. Yes, authoritarian government have mass surveillance, but the converse isn't necessarily true.

The only very clear example of the government getting more authoritarian is in the TSA. (where they now are fondling our balls for our "safety") and to a smaller extent the DHS, prison authorities, and NSLs - smaller in the sense that it has a smaller impact on society.

We're still a nation of laws, and just because the government knows more, doesn't mean it can actually do more.

Imagine for a minute that the president himself personally hated your guts and wanted to make your life miserable. Now imagine he also knows everything about you. What advantage does that really give him? Okay, if you didn't pay your taxes or something, then he could screw you over. But assuming you're law abiding, other than making your traveling an absolutely nightmare there isn't a whole lot he can do.

You can go into fantasy land and say he'll send the CIA to go blackmail you with information about all the tranny midget porn you watch - but lets stay within the framework of what is legal for the government to do.

People aren't afraid of surveillance because it has no impact on our lives. The government isn't actually misusing the data on a large scale. That's why we didn't know about all this NSA stuff for so long.

Ironically, now that the surveillance is out in the open "they" can try to become authoritarian. And my bet is that if they start trying people will go ape-shit. They'll all get voted out and everything would get rolled back.