The Criminalization of Everyday Life • Hacker News Board

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#121

Post by dmix » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:39 PM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #114

dmix wrote: post #61

I wish people would move beyond 1984 and quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment [1]. There is a much deeper-rooted problem in society than mass surveillance or militarization of police. It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance. We accept and welcome our controllers. Foucault wrote about the effects of prisoner mindset in society in the 1960-70s. Our subjugation and tolerance to au…

quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment Foucault's style is (possibly deliberately) obtuse, and his knowledge of history dubious at best, per Keith Windschuttle's book The Killing of History : http://www.amazon.com/The-Killing-History-Theorists-Murderin... . It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance Because it's easy, because most of the time it doesn't affect us, and because it's h…

Interesting. In The Myth of the Rational Voter: Why Democracies Choose Bad Policies - does Caplan do a good job of proving the inverse as an attainable goal? For example:

a) that fully rational voters instating representative politicians into power will result in good policies (that benefit voters)?

b) that it's possible for voters to become less ignorant and more rational on average, within the current system, in order to reach the outcome of a)?

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#122

Post by microtherion » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:40 PM UTC

VonGuard wrote: post #40

Appropriate, seeing as how Kent State is in Ohio, too. Clearly, they learned their lessons in Ohio: shoot students first, ask questions later.

I was reminded of this, too, and took it as a reminder that the late 60s were not always as peaceful as the article’s author would have it.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#123

Post by rolux » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:43 PM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #114

dmix wrote: post #61

I wish people would move beyond 1984 and quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment [1]. There is a much deeper-rooted problem in society than mass surveillance or militarization of police. It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance. We accept and welcome our controllers. Foucault wrote about the effects of prisoner mindset in society in the 1960-70s. Our subjugation and tolerance to au…

quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment Foucault's style is (possibly deliberately) obtuse, and his knowledge of history dubious at best, per Keith Windschuttle's book The Killing of History : http://www.amazon.com/The-Killing-History-Theorists-Murderin... . It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance Because it's easy, because most of the time it doesn't affect us, and because it's h…

That critique of Foucault is much too cheap. To any halfway competent theory hacker, it will sound like "But Python uses significant whitespace, and Guido van Rossum's knowledge of language design is dubious at best." It's hard to base a serious discussion on that type of argument.

To me, one of the major takeaways from Foucault is his renouncement of the "repression hypothesis". In a nutshell, he proposes to understand power not as a binary relation between oppressors and the oppressed, but as a much more molecular system that spans all sectors of society, and whose modus operandi is not primarily repression, but rather motivation (making someone speak, articulate desires, etc).

Deleuze's "Postscript on the Societies of Control", (https://files.nyu.edu/dnm232/public/deleuze_postcript.pdf, also linked a bit further down), written in the late 1980s, can serve as a very lucid short introduction to (and escalation of) that idea. Worth the read, it's really just five pages.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#124

Post by maurits » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:46 PM UTC

MrZongle2 wrote: post #5

When I read something like this, I always think back to when I would see some tinfoil-hat type ranting on Usenet 20 years ago about the growing surveillance/police state in America. It was generally eye-rolling or unintentionally hilarious stuff. What's depressing is that it's starting to look like they were right.

How about watching a re-run of the X-files? Apart from the little green men and the reoccurring monster, it seems rather tame in this day and age.

Secret courts, secret prisons, bit of wiretapping, all part of everyday life.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#125

Post by tunap » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:46 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #39

This is a continuation of the military industrial complex. There aren't enough wars, but companies that supply the military still need to make money. So they make so much equipment that the DoD needs to give their completely usable equipment away for free. This page should make any U.S. taxpayer sick and any non-U.S. citizen worried: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_e...

The more things change the more they stay the same. https://archive.org/details/WarIsARacket

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#126

Post by memracom » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:46 PM UTC

VLM wrote: post #41

crazygringo wrote: post #22

I can't say I'm exactly surprised. If you ran a police department, you're not about to turn down a free tank -- I mean, how cool is that, toys for the boys?!?! What's bothersome is that a police department is allowed to do this. That DoD rules don't prohibit selling/giving military equipment to police departments. That state legislatures don't prohibit it. A police department, like any organization, is always going t…

The mayor is busy making speeches about how he's tough on crime. Things are gerrymandered enough that its a one party system where I live, so any speeches are a bit extreme, hoping to rise up in the party ranks, not appeal to anyone but extremists. My little city has one of those tanks and used it down the street from my home a couple years ago. Couple broke up, guy goes out, gets drunk, comes home, mostly but not en…

The police used to be brave. Now they are mostly cowards.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#127

Post by jedmeyers » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:49 PM UTC

iambateman wrote: post #32

If every police station in the country is equipped with military-grade weapons and vehicles, what happens in the event of despotic leadership? Suppose someone rises to power with little regard for legislative oversight and activates the sleeping military at home. It might start with a real (or faked) terror event coordinated across several major cities. It wouldn't take much at all, 5-10 cities, and suddenly: 1. Inte…

Police does not listen to federal or state officials. Each city has it's own police comprised usually of it's own residents. I doubt they will all side with the corrupt officials.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#128

Post by evacuationdrill » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:52 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #101

thisiswrong wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance. Why, and how did we let this happen? Look no further : http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Holl... 'War-nography', islamophobia, narco-phobia... and the script goes on. When the masses believe that they are in danger, they will stand behind those in power for protection. There's surprisingly little difference between Joseph…

'War-nography', islamophobia, narco-phobia... and the script goes on. Why is it that those movies attract capital?

Because they're fucking awesome. War movies, that is. Sure, I'm probably playing into some sort of social conditioning, but it doesn't change that I enjoyed watching John Wayne movies growing up.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#129

Post by whiddershins » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:57 PM UTC

What's striking is the correlation between excessive police tactics and enforcement of victimless crimes.

From a right libertarian point of view, it is the government's responsibility to protect your rights, not to protect you.

From a left libertarian point of view, it is the government's responsibility to demonstrate that the good of enforcing a law outweighs the loss of individual freedom and other harm of enforcing it.

Drugs, immigration, fail those tests. Many sex crimes fail those tests. Seatbelt laws probably fail.

The police have to be so aggressive about these things because they never lent themselves to enforcement in the first place.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#130

Post by jedmeyers » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 8:58 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #14

What a depressing article(s). Our reality is only going to get worse since there is little we can (or have the will to) do. At least in the Ukraine people are really contemplating change. Here we watch our football and our shows and fawn over celebrities and nothing changes.

The is no "the" in Ukraine. And there is no point in comparing Ukraine to the US. If you think that people in Ukraine are contemplating change you have to read up more on it. Or maybe visit the country sometimes to see for yourself how wrong you are.