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The Criminalization of Everyday Life

tomdispatch.com

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Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#51

Post by larrys »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #5

When I read something like this, I always think back to when I would see some tinfoil-hat type ranting on Usenet 20 years ago about the growing surveillance/police state in America. It was generally eye-rolling or unintentionally hilarious stuff. What's depressing is that it's starting to look like they were right.

"I would see some tinfoil-hat type ranting on Usenet 20 years ago"

Ok then so how many "tinfoil-hat type rantings" have not come true?

It's easy to say "I had a feeling I should have bought that stock" without acknowledging all the stocks that you didn't buy that didn't go up in price. Or the ones you did that didn't go up in price.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#52

Post by larrys »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #27
sliverstorm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real tinfoil types believe that the government cloud research facility in Alaska controls the weather globally and can cause earthquakes and tsunamis on command. We don't have any indication to believe that's true yet.

True; there are the tinfoil hat types that believe that there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll, and then there are those that believe Bigfoot killed Kennedy with the mind powers he learned from the Lizard People of Zeta Reticuli B. Edit: from the downvotes, I can only assume that I've offended the Bigfoot fans.

"from the downvotes, I can only assume"

Separately, as a karma strategy, it makes sense to upvote something that you reply to (regardless of whether you agree or disagree) as it tends to make your reply higher up (because the parent comment is higher up) and get more visibility which in theory should result in more karma.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#53

Post by djdj123 »

DanBC wrote: post #29
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't see stats in the article; just lots of strawmen and irresponsible summaries of crimes.

Crime, especially violent crime, is dropping in most of US.

This generalization gets bandied about too much. Crime trends and patterns are highly local. I'm sure violent crime is dropping in many places, but in other places it's spiraling out of control, for example, South Chicago, East Oakland, Detroit. I think it's a mistake to throw those places in the same basket as a small city in Ohio (unless it really has similar crime stats).

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#54

Post by redblacktree »

iambateman wrote: post #32

If every police station in the country is equipped with military-grade weapons and vehicles, what happens in the event of despotic leadership? Suppose someone rises to power with little regard for legislative oversight and activates the sleeping military at home. It might start with a real (or faked) terror event coordinated across several major cities. It wouldn't take much at all, 5-10 cities, and suddenly: 1. Inte…

To what end?

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#55

Post by uxp »

iambateman wrote: post #32

If every police station in the country is equipped with military-grade weapons and vehicles, what happens in the event of despotic leadership? Suppose someone rises to power with little regard for legislative oversight and activates the sleeping military at home. It might start with a real (or faked) terror event coordinated across several major cities. It wouldn't take much at all, 5-10 cities, and suddenly: 1. Inte…

Radley Balko’s book, which is cited in the article, "Rise of the Warrior Cop"[0] actually makes a very good argument that the 3rd Amendment which prohibits the quartering of soldiers during peacetime was referencing this exact situation, wherein a group of government controlled "peace officers", which are essentially military personnel, are in constant deployment inside the United States of America keeping tabs on it's citizens. He argues that it has nothing to do with literally being forced to give up your bed to a soldier, but entirely with the state housing soldiers within it's walls. With the gifting of Tanks, M16s and other paramilitary gear to ordinary police officers, we're essentially creating another branch of the armed forces.

[0] http://www.amazon.com/dp/1610392116/

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#56

Post by avmich »

csallen wrote: post #43
avmich wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, bothersome is the one above - that a police department chief is not about to turn down a free tank. If your police has such a mentality, you ought to be worried already.

Human nature is hard to change. Systems are (relatively) easy to change. Rather than worry about people being irresponsible, lazy, greedy, immoral, incompetent, etc, we should focus on building systems that work well and protect all involved despite all of that.

Agree. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate officials - especially elected ones - on their views.

Now, what could be a workable approach...

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#57

Post by redblacktree »

JonnieCache wrote: post #48

The fact that this is being instigated by the federal government makes me suspect that this is deliberate planning for the long-term consequences of american societal breakdown, for when the war on drugs isn't enough to control the ever-growing underclass anymore. Does this kind of thinking still place me firmly with the tinfoil contingent?

Yes. It's comforting to think that it's all orchestrated from the top; that means that, even if it's not you, someone is in control of this chaotic world. The truth is much more frightening. No one quite knows what will happen or how to prepare for it, and we'll all likely get screwed when the unexpected happens.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#58

Post by [deleted] »

ninjac0der wrote: post #28
MrZongle2 wrote: post #5

When I read something like this, I always think back to when I would see some tinfoil-hat type ranting on Usenet 20 years ago about the growing surveillance/police state in America. It was generally eye-rolling or unintentionally hilarious stuff. What's depressing is that it's starting to look like they were right.

It shines that people now assume the 'nuts' just happened to be right. It time to bring back anti-authoritative thinking.

[deleted]

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#59

Post by redblacktree »

ctdonath wrote: post #33

Used to be military surplus stores would acquire military surplus and sell them to an amused and subsequently harmless citizenry. All that old equipment has to go somewhere ; now such civilian possession is prohibited (even used Humvees (basically just off-road cars) cannot, by law, be sold to the public), it ends up routed to the only group legally allowed to have it and wants it: police. In the meantime, stores tha…

> Question is: why is the government so afraid of its own citizens possessing such gear?

Is that the right question, considering that the tactical gear market is allowed to exist? I'm apparently too lazy to do it, but it would probably be instructive to look at the history of that ban on military-to-citizen sales.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#60

Post by diydsp »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #37

One of the underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution is the Bill Of Rights, one of which states "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." People go bouncing off the wall around this issue as if it were one having solely to do with owning guns, but the real purpose is arranging the real power in the government. The p…

Thank you for the patient post.

People will probably despise me for this, but why don't we have compulsory military duty in the U.S. like other countries?

It would give people some discipline. It would discourage us from acting arrogant, "lol! we should bomb them!" It would give people some skills. If it was equally applied, no one would have any disadvantage. It would make people feel much more secure, without delegating their security to others.

The real scourge is that in order to be economically competitive, we must all hyper-specialize and become experts in a single, narrow area. We can no longer lucidly judge others b/c we have less in common with one another.

A work buddy said in the 1950s in the U.S., teenagers would hang out with the police. He distinctly remembers hanging out in a police car, smoking marijuana, while the cops chided him because he said he couldn't afford real tobacco to smoke. I want to get back to that world. I want to provoke other nations less, so we're no longer a target of terrorism. I want us to get back to the business of making our lives leisurely through technology, rather than more awesome. "More awesome" means were doing more with the same energy as we exerted in the industrial revolution. I'd much rather see us getting less done with less energy.

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