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Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

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Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#41

Post by Mikeb85 »

When it comes to 'learning to code' I'll have to go with the Stallmans of this world - open systems are better.

You know what would be awesome? If kids learned to code on and tinker with Raspberry Pis. They could learn to code, turn them into robots, do all sorts of cool things. If a few break, no big deal, a 35$ pi is a drop in the ocean compared to how much schools spend on Macs...

For mobile, Firefox OS seems to be the only choice for a truly open platform, and it doesn't hurt that Javascript is the single most accessible programming language to learn (in that you don't need to install anything, just fire up a browser and a scratchpad).

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#42

Post by sjwright »

BadassFractal wrote: post #5

The App store is a big step back for developers as far as healthy rapid iteration practices go. Week-long byzantine review cycles, expensive closed-source tools segregated to one platform, a single source for all downloads, inability to beta your product etc. This all set us back considerably with regards to where we are now on the web. For now Apple can get away with this, their lead is massive and the customers are…

> The App store is a big step back for developers

It's definitely a big step forward for consumers. Apps in the store have been reviewed by an authority prior to release, they must follow guidelines to (as much as possible) ensure compatibility and protect my privacy, and they are sandboxed to protect my private data and the device's integrity.

You might not appreciate the difference, but it means I can confidently hand an iPhone or iPad to anyone -- tech savvy or otherwise -- and let them loose without being concerned about what they're downloading or installing. Gone are the days where I set up computers for family members and end up full of malware and spyware within a couple of months. That is HUGE.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#43

Post by cageface »

canweriotnow wrote: post #37
xdissent wrote: post #7

Article was poorly written lament from current android developer that wishes he was an iPhone dev but on principle doesn't have $100 to take his developed app to market. Overall, proud of Obama and I hope youth hears his call.

OP here, current iOS and Android developer with active accounts on both. Difference being: I'm happy to be an Android developer (will be happier when the Clojure/Android project reaches fruition); every time I have to dip my toes in Apple's filthy ichor of an app ecosystem I want to vomit. Not about money for me, but if I was a little kid hacker again, money would have been a big deal.

I've done some Android and iOS apps and I also feel uncomfortable contributing in my own small way to Apple's ecosystems.

Unfortunately Android's audio & midi APIs just aren't sophisticated enough to support the kind of apps I want to write so I'm stuck with iOS for now.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#44

Post by snowwrestler »

My siblings, all younger, have Macs. They can download Xcode for free and mess around with building apps--mobile or otherwise--all they want.

Their computers ship with a Terminal app that implements a fully Posix-compliant Unix shell, so they can learn shell scripting.

It comes with a LAMP stack, so they can learn basic web development.

It runs C, Objective C, Ruby, and Python programs, so they can work on more advanced programming.

And of course it can run the Java VM and Javascript V8, which confusingly have nothing to do with one another.

How is any of this an obstacle to America's future?

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#45

Post by canweriotnow »

davidedicillo wrote: post #32
canweriotnow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem solved, if kids have access to Android. Apple is aggressively pursuing the edu market, and seems to be winning there. This is antithetical to the "kids learning to code" ideal. I don't care what kids code on, I care about access. And forcing people to pay $99 to run their own code on their own devices is beyond unconscionable.

Google is aggressively pursuing the edu market with Chromebooks, so what?

You can develop for Chromebooks, on Chromebooks, for free, and it's one-time $5 to distribute. That's what.

The point is about access to the tools, the skills, and the ability to share; if the vendor controls any of those, FAIL.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#46

Post by canweriotnow »

stephenr wrote: post #33
canweriotnow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem solved, if kids have access to Android. Apple is aggressively pursuing the edu market, and seems to be winning there. This is antithetical to the "kids learning to code" ideal. I don't care what kids code on, I care about access. And forcing people to pay $99 to run their own code on their own devices is beyond unconscionable.

The $99 is to publish apps - I've made a couple of little quick fix utils for work projects by building and deploying straight to the phone via USB, no subscription required.

Without jailbreaking?

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#47

Post by x0054 »

canweriotnow wrote: post #25
x0054 wrote: post #22

This is idiotic! Apple is not THE obstacle, it's just another platform. People who love apple get accused of being fanboys. What is the opposite of that? Some one who drags in Apple into any an all argument, and figures out a way to blame them for anything and everything. Teenagers who can't afford to pay $99 have a clear option, Android. It's like arguing that Ferrari is preventing kinds from chasing their dreams of…

When you're talking about K-12 edtech education, in many cases the kids have the patforms their schools/districts endorse. And in many, if not most cases, that's iOS. plus, we're not talking about $99 to publish, we're talking about $99 just to run your own code on your own device. I don't know about you, but when I was a 10yr hacker, that would have been a deal breaker.

If you are in K12, you have a cellphone, it's as simple as that. Want to learn how to program, Jailbroke your iPhone, get an Android, or pay $99 and learn. You have options.

Is it idiotic to give iPads to school students? Yes. Is it apples fault that schools waste money on iPads? Ok, a little. But to claim that apple is the obstacle that prevents children from learning how to program wrong.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#48

Post by canweriotnow »

snowwrestler wrote: post #44

My siblings, all younger, have Macs. They can download Xcode for free and mess around with building apps--mobile or otherwise--all they want. Their computers ship with a Terminal app that implements a fully Posix-compliant Unix shell, so they can learn shell scripting. It comes with a LAMP stack, so they can learn basic web development. It runs C, Objective C, Ruby, and Python programs, so they can work on more advan…

I use a Mac for work. Mainly (sadly) because XCode. But other than XCode crap, I could do everything else on Linux, BSD, Solaris, etc.

I'm not completely against OS X... until they finally disable non-App Store software sources, the thought of which is, I expect, giving someone at Apple a massive hard-on at this very moment.

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#49

Post by axman6 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #44

My siblings, all younger, have Macs. They can download Xcode for free and mess around with building apps--mobile or otherwise--all they want. Their computers ship with a Terminal app that implements a fully Posix-compliant Unix shell, so they can learn shell scripting. It comes with a LAMP stack, so they can learn basic web development. It runs C, Objective C, Ruby, and Python programs, so they can work on more advan…

Weren't you listening? Apple is involved, so it's obvious all evil. Apple has never done anything at all without an evil ulterior motive; don't you read HN?

Re: Apple: The Obstacle to America's Future?

#50

Post by axman6 »

canweriotnow wrote: post #37
xdissent wrote: post #7

Article was poorly written lament from current android developer that wishes he was an iPhone dev but on principle doesn't have $100 to take his developed app to market. Overall, proud of Obama and I hope youth hears his call.

OP here, current iOS and Android developer with active accounts on both. Difference being: I'm happy to be an Android developer (will be happier when the Clojure/Android project reaches fruition); every time I have to dip my toes in Apple's filthy ichor of an app ecosystem I want to vomit. Not about money for me, but if I was a little kid hacker again, money would have been a big deal.

Why do kids have to learn to code for iOS? I learnt to program on a mac and have never written anything more than the most basic Mac os iOS apps; it's just never interested me. I've spent most of my time writing Haskell and C, among others, both of which new coders could learn relatively easily and both of which work on many platforms. New coders don't need to know anything about any company's ecosystem, they need to know how to code in the language they've chosen, be it C, python, Haskell, ruby, C++, java, brainfuck, Modula-2, Ada (highly recommended) or anything else.
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