Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

news.ycombinator.com

1–10 of 66 posts

Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#1
On today the birthday of Grace Hopper, inventor of the compiler among other computer science achievements, I ask HN, why is the hacker scene and computing field in general so hostile to women and people of color? More specifically, hostile to black people.

It's my opinion that diversity spurs innovation, is the scene really so short-sighted as to ignore this long-term failure to include anyone but mostly white males? For a group that prides itself in its inventiveness, it seems to be a dangerously closed loop.

Thoughts? What can be done to change this?

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#2
Because many African languages, like Zulu, lack many linguistic distinctions sufficient to produce abstract concepts regarding Time (Past/Present) and Rules (Obligation/Promise). So descendents of Africans and people who are closer in proximity to practical use of those languages are seen as lacking subtlety, lacking conceptual grace, less capable of exploratory thought and critical intellectual maneuvering — notwithstanding the Media Machine which primes expectations for cross-racial and cross-cultural interactions.

As a Black (and Native American, mind you) person myself, I constantly battle on a personal level with criticisms such as this, and through my own limitations with language. I am but one person. At the same time, I have read from the works of Samuel Beckett to the works of Wittgenstein to Galileo, Aquinas, Maimonides, Aristotle, versed in Spinoza's Ethics, trained with a B.A. in Philosophy. And I still find myself each day pitted against the installed social strictures present in all Blacks' lives; even with my Classical education, I often find myself barking up the wrong tree more often than not.

Each day I grapple with my tools, sometimes mystified by my own capacity to become conceptually paralyzed. And this becomes a circle of a vicious nature. Language itself becomes both a fortress blocking acceptance and a prison prohibiting liberation, as constantly, despite whatever linguistic finesse I might muster, it simply falls upon deaf ears.

We call this Structural Oppression. It does not disappear over night.

One important point MLK made during his campaign is that, and I paraphrase, equality will not exist until Blacks are able to fail at the same rate as Whites. I am quite sure the same goes for women; hence, why Miley Cyrus serves as a Debordian "Spectacle".

Georges Bataille says something I believe is relevant[0]:

    A man who finds himself among others is irritated 
    because he does not know why he is not one of the others. 
[0]: http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/georges-bataille-the-...

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#3
Where do you see hostility? I run an open-source organization and it just so happens that not a lot of women programmers frequent on IRC which is where we have most of our discussions. I just don't see many women in the field let alone any hostility towards them.

Edit: Your mention of women and blacks remind me of this picture: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/8212496@N06/493885707

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#4

Because many African languages, like Zulu, lack many linguistic distinctions sufficient to produce abstract concepts regarding Time (Past/Present) and Rules (Obligation/Promise). So descendents of Africans and people who are closer in proximity to practical use of those languages are seen as lacking subtlety, lacking conceptual grace, less capable of exploratory thought and critical intellectual maneuvering — notwith…

Thank you for providing an example of what a bigot pretending to be smart sounds like. Now we all know what to look out for and combat.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#5
I wouldn't say there's a hostility toward woman and black people, but there's definitely a shortage in the hacker scene. Out of all the groups I've been a part of, the technological people I've been around seem to care the least about that kind of stuff. That being said, I'm not a woman, nor am I black, so maybe it is there and I just don't see it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#6

Because many African languages, like Zulu, lack many linguistic distinctions sufficient to produce abstract concepts regarding Time (Past/Present) and Rules (Obligation/Promise). So descendents of Africans and people who are closer in proximity to practical use of those languages are seen as lacking subtlety, lacking conceptual grace, less capable of exploratory thought and critical intellectual maneuvering — notwith…

Thank you for providing an example of what a bigot pretending to be smart sounds like. Now we all know what to look out for and combat.

Do you actually have an argument ? Do you actually have a contribution to make to the discussion ? Can you not see the claims being made here ? Can you actually argue one way or another, or is this discussion simply off-limits because anyone has any opinion whatsoever?

Is it essential that I add "I read this from some place" ?

I deal with this issue on a personal level; the least you can acknowledge is that it hurts for me to have internalized assertions I clearly did not dream up or produce myself.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#7

Because many African languages, like Zulu, lack many linguistic distinctions sufficient to produce abstract concepts regarding Time (Past/Present) and Rules (Obligation/Promise). So descendents of Africans and people who are closer in proximity to practical use of those languages are seen as lacking subtlety, lacking conceptual grace, less capable of exploratory thought and critical intellectual maneuvering — notwith…

Thank you for providing an example of what a bigot pretending to be smart sounds like. Now we all know what to look out for and combat.

    ... sometimes mystified by my own capacity to become conceptually paralyzed.

    [...] are seen as [...]
Like, are you actually reading what I wrote ?

Who pretends to be smart by admitting their own capacity to become conceptually paralyzed by their own tools ?

What are you even talking about ?

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#8
http://learncodethehardway.org/

http://ruby.railstutorial.org/

http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

There. That should do it--for our part, we'll try to be friendly. What more do you want?

EDIT:

http://railsgirls.com/ is actually pretty great to be fair.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#9

Because many African languages, like Zulu, lack many linguistic distinctions sufficient to produce abstract concepts regarding Time (Past/Present) and Rules (Obligation/Promise). So descendents of Africans and people who are closer in proximity to practical use of those languages are seen as lacking subtlety, lacking conceptual grace, less capable of exploratory thought and critical intellectual maneuvering — notwith…

Thank you for providing an example of what a bigot pretending to be smart sounds like. Now we all know what to look out for and combat.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is the hacker scene so hostile to women and black people?

#10
I am confused, where exactly do you see this hostility? I thought the hacker community is welcome to everyone. In fact, i am not a white male. Most people i know aren't white males. A very large number of visitors of HN are probably not white males. But we're all respectful towards each other here. In fact of all the forums online, I actually find HN to be the least biased/racist/sexist. Just the other day, that post by Julia Evans about writing an OS received such positive feedback. I didn't see a single comment that discredited her for being a female. In fact when one commenter accidentally called her a "he", he was put down by the others for his mistake, saying that it is very disrespectful to assume the poster of a Tech blog is a male by default.

So i don't see really what hostility you are pointing towards. Some examples would be welcome.

Post reply on HN