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Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

blog.sfgate.com

171–180 of 188 posts

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#171

I don't get it. The buses are cutting down on personal driving (a universally acknowledged evil), and paying for permits to use the stops (generating revenue for the city). Would these people rather the Google employees all drive personal vehicles, increasing wear and tear on the roads, congestion, pollution, etc., costing the city money? Also, is it really the companies fault that the value of housing in the area is…

One general objection to two-tier systems is that they are a symptom of people with the ability to effect change saying "we know this is broken, but we've decided to just fix it for ourselves, not for you". The emergence of the new tier shows they have the power to effect change, even as it removes their incentive to cause further change. For example, if the boss has a reserved parking space it's a sign the other par…

Politicians putting their kids in private schools is hypocritical because they are in charge of the public education system. Google has no responsibility whatsoever for the public transportation system and would probably prefer one (since they wouldn't have to pay for and deal with their private bus system.)

Your argument applies to anyone who has ever solved any problem for themselves rather than the common good.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. At least the ones I've heard from, they want employees of companies in the South Bay and Peninsula to live outside of San Francisco. They believe that the mass influx of money is driving long time residents out, and that building more housing is the wrong solution. I remember reading one article that suggested there should be a wait list to get to live in the city.

"and that building more housing is the wrong solution" People who own housing in an artificially supply constrained environment would think that!

Exactly, the people who are against building new housing are the people who already own houses, and there is obvious "I've got mine, so fuck you" attitude at work here. It's wonderful for them that the housing price gets artificially inflated and they can then rent out their 2 bedroom small condo for $5k a month.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by papering over the problem with a short-term fix for their employees only, they remove public demand for a long-term, public solution

Good. There was a problem and they decreased the amount of people affected by it. Since when is that a bad thing? Let alone worth protesting.

It's a problem when only a very privileged minority have access to a vital service.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#174

This op-ed does a better job at explaining how some non-tech residents of San Francisco feel about the buses. When your experience of a big city is a seamless parade of hip restaurants and privately funded transportation, it's easy to overlook the things that cities need, like filled potholes and a reliable transit system. San Franciscans feel resentful about the technology industry's lack of civic and community enga…

I don't buy it.

Commuting by company bus rather than private car or public transit doesn't somehow make a person unaware of the world around them. If anything, I'd wager that the average Google Bus passenger is more attuned to the sorry state of public transit in this city than the average city resident, since not driving to work often goes hand-in-hand with not owning a car.

And no one's experience of the city is "a seamless parade of hip restaurants and privately funded transportation." Regardless of where they work, people who live in the city spend time here. We walk around the neighborhoods, shop at the grocery stores, and play with our dogs (or watch people play with theirs) in the park. We're also aware of the less pleasant aspects of the city: we step over the poop on the sidewalk, we hear the gunshots, our stuff gets stolen. The only aspect of urban life that shuttle commuters are relatively immune from is the snarl of rush hour traffic, but on that front, they're part of the solution more than they're part of the problem.

(And regarding the specific incident in the article that set the writer off, I don't doubt that there are people on the Google bus who push past people as they disembark. But stand next to a Muni bus as it's disgorging passengers, and you'll see the same thing. A significant chunk of the SF population, rich and poor alike, has zero regard for anyone else standing near them.)

The resentment isn't about the "technology industry's lack of civic and community engagement." It's about the rich displacing everyone else. There are more people who want to live in the city than there is housing, so no matter what schemes are in place to assist low income residents, incumbent residents, or people in particular fields, someone will be squeezed out. The rich squeeze out everyone else with their wallet, so some people feel it's appropriate to try and squeeze out the rich by making their lives unpleasant.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#175

This op-ed does a better job at explaining how some non-tech residents of San Francisco feel about the buses. When your experience of a big city is a seamless parade of hip restaurants and privately funded transportation, it's easy to overlook the things that cities need, like filled potholes and a reliable transit system. San Franciscans feel resentful about the technology industry's lack of civic and community enga…

I personally think it has to do with wealthier people doing what they want regardless of what the community wants. Similar outrage flared after the Sean Parker wedding. Regardless of what he actually did at the site, regardless that he paid a fine after the fact, regardless that it created jobs (I know a guy who worked for the lighting company) he pulled the ask-for-forgiveness-rather-than-permission stunt and did wh…

http://m.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/06/sean-par...

How dare he donate millions of dollars to conserve and restore Big Sur.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#176

I get the rationale of targeting Google's private bus fleet. There's nothing like a giant bus billboard rolling through your neighborhood to remind you of gentrification and the exorbitant rent prices. I do, however, find it pretty difficult to sympathize with the protesters. Would these people have preferred everyone on the bus to have driven their cars instead? I suppose you could argue that the buses themselves ar…

SFans don't want to ride the buses. The protestors complaint is that SF should be for people who work in SF.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a comparable cost of living? Over a comparable area? It's perfectly possible that's the case, but "$/capita" doesn't make the case on its own...

The very fact that such a a place like SF has such a high cost of living is the problem. I recently just came back from Tokyo, truly a world class city with multiple times the population density of SF and the highest city GDP in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP You know what? Cost of living there is actually CHEAPER than here, food, transportation, hell, even housing is cheaper than the j…

Arguably, but that doesn't mean you can ignore it, or that the increase in cost of projects due to a higher cost of labor is a sign if mismanagement of those projects.

If you would like to propose an intervention targeted at reducing the cost of living in SF, I'll certainly listen though I won't promise I'll agree.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#178
post #176

I get the rationale of targeting Google's private bus fleet. There's nothing like a giant bus billboard rolling through your neighborhood to remind you of gentrification and the exorbitant rent prices. I do, however, find it pretty difficult to sympathize with the protesters. Would these people have preferred everyone on the bus to have driven their cars instead? I suppose you could argue that the buses themselves ar…

SFans don't want to ride the buses. The protestors complaint is that SF should be for people who work in SF.

Auslander raus!

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#179
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that the protests are targeted more generally at gentrification. People of privilege moving to the Mission, mostly ignoring the culture of the neighborhood and it's long-time residents, fueling out of control rent increases, slowly destroying a cultural landmark. I suspect the damage has more to do with CA property tax and SF's NIMBy zoning laws than silicon valley bussing, but they do have a point that i…

But then again, to push the conservatism to the extreme, not much of the actual original SF Ohlone native culture is still remaining.

This. The Mission is a giant game of musical chairs, and it's weird how anyone thinks the people who have only been there since the 1950s deserve to have it forever.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public sector unions and corrupt/incompetent government workers in SF Bay Area is the root cause of the atrocious public transportation in this area, money is not. There are plenty of cities around the world that spends less per capita on infrastructure but still has a way more effective system.

Yes, the muni is not as good as in Tokyo, Hong Kong or London, but so what? Here's the problem in a nutshell. Google & co. did not ask anybody before they started using the public Muni stops. I repeat, they did not ask anybody, they just did it. The problem has become so big that the city is now forced to consider a pilot program where Google & co. pay for use of some of the muni stops. If you or I started running a…

Thank you. I've skimmed the article a couple of times now, and for some reason, misread it into thinking that they were already paying for use.

I've been wondering what the todo was about, and this explains it, or at least partially helps understand the motivation.

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