Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission • Hacker News Board

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#51

Post by ebiester » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:31 PM UTC

xanderstrike wrote: post #38

I don't get it. The buses are cutting down on personal driving (a universally acknowledged evil), and paying for permits to use the stops (generating revenue for the city). Would these people rather the Google employees all drive personal vehicles, increasing wear and tear on the roads, congestion, pollution, etc., costing the city money? Also, is it really the companies fault that the value of housing in the area is…

No. At least the ones I've heard from, they want employees of companies in the South Bay and Peninsula to live outside of San Francisco. They believe that the mass influx of money is driving long time residents out, and that building more housing is the wrong solution. I remember reading one article that suggested there should be a wait list to get to live in the city.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#52

Post by calbear81 » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:31 PM UTC

tedivm wrote: post #27

cynicalkane wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not obligated to "reason" with anyone who stops me, illegally, and demands my attention. I don't see why it's different for the average Google employee.

They blocked in a bus that was illegally parked. No one forced you to get on the bus that was violating city codes. What these people are complaining about is a two tiered system, where one set of laws apply to the people who live in the city and another set apply to corporations like Google. Why should that bus get to do something that common citizens are not allowed to, simply because it's owned by a company instea…

If it was illegally parked, couldn't they just call the police to ticket the bus? If the city has chosen to allow the buses to use the Muni stops then the fight should be with the regulators/city not with Google. For example, in the Mission, you're allowed to park in the middle of the street on Sundays because of the need to accommodate churchgoers. This seems like another application of special rules that "common citizens" cannot normally do.

At the end of the day though, the bus protest is not really about the bus but about the overall situation with housing, power, and inequality.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#53

Post by nhaehnle » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:32 PM UTC

xanderstrike wrote: post #38

I don't get it. The buses are cutting down on personal driving (a universally acknowledged evil), and paying for permits to use the stops (generating revenue for the city). Would these people rather the Google employees all drive personal vehicles, increasing wear and tear on the roads, congestion, pollution, etc., costing the city money? Also, is it really the companies fault that the value of housing in the area is…

Question 1: Do you think the underlying complaints of the protests, which are presumably about problems like gentrification, are valid?

Question 2: If so, what do you propose the people do?

As to one of your questions:

Presumably, the protesters want the city and those companies to sit together and create a public transport system that works for everybody. It's fine to have lines and stops specifically laid out to be beneficial to the primary users, as long as everybody else can ride along. That's what tends to happen over on this side of the pond, and I find it an exceedingly reasonable suggestion, because everybody would win even more.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#54

Post by dap » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:34 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #48

It is entirely unclear what they are protesting, other than 'not working at Google.' The alleged trespass of using 'public infrastructure for private profit' is unsupported. People pick up and drop off people at the sidewalk (required, no stopping in the middle of the street). The staged appearance of a guy who is a union organizer (reported elsewhere) added a bit of melodrama. Looking at the action critically, what…

The corporate buses often stop at public bus stops, sometimes blocking MUNI buses from the stop.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#55

Post by ryguytilidie » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:35 PM UTC

cia_plant wrote: post #50

ryguytilidie wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it does nothing but positive things for the employees, the city, and the environment." When you say something like this you really have to realize that there may be some bias here. I think these protestors feel pretty negative about this, I can't imagine that it's for no reason.

Assuming that everyone has a reasonable point, is also a bias. There are protests over gay marriage and "get the government out of medicare" and all kinds of ridiculous things.

First, i never said reasonable point, you did. I don't think its disingenuous to assume that a large group of people protesting have even a single reason to be doing so.

The person I'm responding to seems to believe they have NO REASON to be protesting. I'm simply saying that I don't think a bunch of people went and wasted their AM for no good reason.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#56

Post by nhaehnle » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:35 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #48

It is entirely unclear what they are protesting, other than 'not working at Google.' The alleged trespass of using 'public infrastructure for private profit' is unsupported. People pick up and drop off people at the sidewalk (required, no stopping in the middle of the street). The staged appearance of a guy who is a union organizer (reported elsewhere) added a bit of melodrama. Looking at the action critically, what…

Looking at the action critically, what is to be gained by calling attention to Google, Facebook, and others providing their own bus fleets?

A bus fleet that works for everybody? You know, the kind of public transportation that is common in industrialized countries that have their act together when it comes to the provision of public services.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#57

Post by mellis » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:35 PM UTC

xanderstrike wrote: post #38

I don't get it. The buses are cutting down on personal driving (a universally acknowledged evil), and paying for permits to use the stops (generating revenue for the city). Would these people rather the Google employees all drive personal vehicles, increasing wear and tear on the roads, congestion, pollution, etc., costing the city money? Also, is it really the companies fault that the value of housing in the area is…

As someone who's tried to get from San Francisco to Silicon Valley without a car, I'd love to see companies like Google advocating and supporting better public transportation as well as just providing a private solution.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#58

Post by adventured » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:35 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #48

It is entirely unclear what they are protesting, other than 'not working at Google.' The alleged trespass of using 'public infrastructure for private profit' is unsupported. People pick up and drop off people at the sidewalk (required, no stopping in the middle of the street). The staged appearance of a guy who is a union organizer (reported elsewhere) added a bit of melodrama. Looking at the action critically, what…

Not to mention those Google employees pay a lot in taxes. They fund that public infrastructure, more so than just about anyone else in fact.

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#59

Post by HelloMcFly » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:35 PM UTC

cia_plant wrote: post #50

ryguytilidie wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it does nothing but positive things for the employees, the city, and the environment." When you say something like this you really have to realize that there may be some bias here. I think these protestors feel pretty negative about this, I can't imagine that it's for no reason.

Assuming that everyone has a reasonable point, is also a bias. There are protests over gay marriage and "get the government out of medicare" and all kinds of ridiculous things.

But even protests over ridiculous things tend to have at least some understandable, and sometimes reasonable, argument. Sticking to this scenario, can you not think of a single one for the protesting residents?

Re: Protesters block Google bus in S.F. Mission

#60

Post by ryguytilidie » Mon, Dec 09, 2013, 10:36 PM UTC

chaz wrote: post #46

tedivm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's nice to know that if I break the rules I can get the city to retroactively change them for me, assuming I have enough money.

Curious: if you disagree with a permitting process for the private buses, what would you prefer the outcome to be?

That seems like a mighty straw man. He never said he disagreed with the permit process. He simply disagrees with the idea that these companies have been able to park illegally with no consequence for years and instead of just writing them tickets, as the city would do for a normal person, they decide to give them permits to prevent them from having to break the law hundreds of times a day.