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Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

ritholtz.com

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Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#41

Post by pradocchia »

rtpg wrote: post #33
MichaelGG wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The point is that we're not actually doing them most of the time. I agree, but is that really knowable? By definition, the successfully done ones aren't known, right? Not that it's a reason to dive into conspiracy theories.

I'm maybe too much of an optimist , but I've always felt like we're(Americans) a bit less realpolitik than the rest of the world, and that if it were to come to shooting Americans for political gain, somebody would say something. I think the biggest proof is in the Snowden revelations, american politicians seem to be the only ones complaining about their own country's systems. We seem to have a good culture of protec…

> I'm maybe too much of an optimist , but I've always felt like we're(Americans) a bit less realpolitik than the rest of the world, and that if it were to come to shooting Americans for political gain, somebody would say something.

Spend some time consuming foreign-language media. You'll find the same hard-nosed realpolitik narrative on foreign governments, mixed with a much more sympathetic treatment of the domestic government.

This has the same effect: "we" are sincere, "they" are nefarious, "we" are straightforward, "they" are untrustworthy, "we" are working for the greater good, "they" are working for their own advantage, etc.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#42

Post by mercurial »

recuter wrote: post #30

It is actually incredibly easy to see how smart people tasked with solving complicated societal problems arrive at false flag operations as a viable solution: Imagine you have a credible imminent threat to your society posted by a danger to which the society is not familiar enough with to fully grasp and take seriously. Do you wait for the threat to play out and take your chances with the society sufficiently changin…

> It is actually incredibly easy to see how smart people tasked with solving complicated societal problems arrive at false flag operations as a viable solution:

The end justifies the means. And we surely shouldn't be naive about it. And if we don't do it first, the opposition will no doubt get ahead. And that's all that matter in the end. It's a pissing contest taking place in a graveyard.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#43

Post by baddox »

rdtsc wrote: post #19

This is a tried and true tactic. It would take extensive use of brainwashing and belief in fairy tales about an enlightened government, a city on hill exceptional-ism or what-have-you to think these don't happen. However, this level of brainwashing is achieved in US quite often. It is a lot worse vis-a-vis the rhetoric of independence, free thinking, individualism. But that in an of itself (this belief that we are no…

> It would take extensive use of brainwashing and belief in fairy tales about an enlightened government, a city on hill exceptional-ism or what-have-you to think these don't happen.

And the only way a government could pull that off would be to do something drastic, like if it forced all citizens to sit listening to government employees deliver government curricula for 8 hours a day for twelve years during some of the most formative periods of their lives.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#44

Post by capex »

recuter wrote: post #30

It is actually incredibly easy to see how smart people tasked with solving complicated societal problems arrive at false flag operations as a viable solution: Imagine you have a credible imminent threat to your society posted by a danger to which the society is not familiar enough with to fully grasp and take seriously. Do you wait for the threat to play out and take your chances with the society sufficiently changin…

> "Innocent people will die either way."

This is no gray area.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#45

Post by TallGuyShort »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #32

Not to diminish the issue, but many items were not 'governments' but rather members of govt covering up errors.

I think that's the key thing, though. I would gladly live under practically any government system if I knew that all the officials and citizens were perfectly honest, responsible and charitable. I don't think I'd like any system that was repeatedly plagued by the types of individuals that are committing these acts.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#47

Post by mercurial »

rtpg wrote: post #33
MichaelGG wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The point is that we're not actually doing them most of the time. I agree, but is that really knowable? By definition, the successfully done ones aren't known, right? Not that it's a reason to dive into conspiracy theories.

I'm maybe too much of an optimist , but I've always felt like we're(Americans) a bit less realpolitik than the rest of the world, and that if it were to come to shooting Americans for political gain, somebody would say something. I think the biggest proof is in the Snowden revelations, american politicians seem to be the only ones complaining about their own country's systems. We seem to have a good culture of protec…

> I'm maybe too much of an optimist , but I've always felt like we're(Americans) a bit less realpolitik than the rest of the world, and that if it were to come to shooting Americans for political gain, somebody would say something.

Sure haven't been shy about shooting non-Americans for political gain in the last century, though.

> I've heard nobody in France complain about the DGSE's complete unfettered usage of everyone's data.

Tell me about it. Guess it wasn't as important as gay marriage, football or the road tax.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#48

Post by mercurial »

adventured wrote: post #7
gremlinsinc wrote: post #5

Not really surprising, but how do we stop it? Can it be stopped, or is corruption in government, just something we're forced to live with forever?

"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."

But the price is cheaper if you redefine liberty.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#49

Post by twoodfin »

rdtsc wrote: post #19

This is a tried and true tactic. It would take extensive use of brainwashing and belief in fairy tales about an enlightened government, a city on hill exceptional-ism or what-have-you to think these don't happen. However, this level of brainwashing is achieved in US quite often. It is a lot worse vis-a-vis the rhetoric of independence, free thinking, individualism. But that in an of itself (this belief that we are no…

Good thing we have smart people like you and those who voted up this comment who have resisted all the brainwashing.

Re: Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

#50

Post by leot »

coldtea wrote: post #10
marojejian wrote: post #2

I generally find this blogger too alarmist, but much of the list here appears accurate, and shocking to me. Faked terrorism seems much more common than I would guess. Of course, the more liberal/democratic the country, and the more recent, the more weak/stetched the case is. but still, the lesson to me is that this sort of "conspiracy" is not at all implausible, even in a country like Canada....

> Of course, the more liberal/democratic the country, and the more recent, the more weak/stetched the case is. Not really, quite the opposite. The most "liberal" countries are the worst perpetrators of such things, if we're talking about Western democracies. They usually do it outside their territorry to assert influence on countries and place allies in power, grab resources, prevent unfavorable regime change etc. (N…

What? This is like saying that peaceniks are, in reality, the most violent of all. That after leaving Love-All-Equal Unitarian Church, the church-goers spend time studying the strategies of Hermann Goering. That's utter hogwash.

For some reason, neither Scandinavia, nor Canada, nor Switzerland appear on the list as perpetrators. And when Italy does, it's when the country is run by a decidedly illiberal corporatist/fascist.

Indeed, for some reason, liberalism -- that is, the philosophy based on the ideas of freedom and universal human equality under the law -- is seen as antithetical to violent mendacity.

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