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Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

arstechnica.com

61–70 of 76 posts

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#61
post #4

If you want competition, stop letting local governments make "deals" with the ISP's to bring such and such Internet or service to that area. Almost always that ensures the company will get a monopoly in that area. It's precisely for this reason why I'm against states making deals with ISP's even if it means bringing gigabit fiber to their areas. Will it still be fast enough 10-15 years later? Because you can bet they…

> I'm sure 1-10 Mbps seemed super-fast 10 years ago It's plenty fast now, too. Good-quality 1080p H.264 video is 3Mbps. 6Mbps is 50GB/day. If this is not enough, you most likely have a software problem. Not that we shouldn't strive for progress, but most of the complains in these comments are completely different from the rural horror stories of the article - they're taking for granted development that isn't actually…

> It's plenty fast now, too. ...If this is not enough, you most likely have a software problem.

And 640k should be enough memory for anybody.

The problem here is that decent internet access (10-30mbps per person) is cheap to deploy, and easy to do, when there are no other problems standing in the way. (For instance, when the cable company doesn't buy off the local government).

Apologizing for phone and cable companies who are raking in record profits doesn't help us in any way.

> they're taking for granted development that isn't actually there.

The development is there. Lithuania, Sweden, Switzerland, Iceland, and Romania didn't just "magic" their internet in existence. They took cheap easily-obtained widely-available technology and simply deployed it, along with the 30 other countries who all have (on average) faster / better / more reliable internet service than the USA.

http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

Notice the pricing there too -- USA pays more for internet than many other countries that rank higher than we do. (We pay 4 times more money per mbps than Denmark does, and receive slower service then them for that cash).

http://www.netindex.com/value/allcountries/

> Signing up for the cable company because it has the highest advertised speeds and then complaining about the implications of a shared medium provided by an unregulated monopoly is myopic entitled whining.

I think we understand the implications of the shared medium. But it's clear that the medium isn't the issue -- it's the misuse of the technology by the ISPs. DOCIS 3.0 is not the issue, Comcast trying to cut costs by making thousands of homes share the same backhaul on the same lines, is the issue.

And what else should folks do? Cable is the only internet service that qualifies as "high speed" (by the FCC's very very lax definition of 'High speed') in 99% of the United States.

There are zero other options.

> Look into competing DSL options, really.

Why bother? So I can switch to one of the dozens of companies who all resell the same 2mb AT&T ADSL line. (A line which, according to our own Federal Communications Commission, is too slow to be called "high speed internet")

http://www.fcc.gov/reports/sixth-broadband-progress-report

Why would you suggest we subsidize the phone companies attempts to kill our access to the internet? At least the cable company offers something.

> Your new provider may even have warm-blooded people answering the phone.

They sure do. AT&T has the friendliest phone support team, who will in very kind and gentle terms, explain that since they're too lazy to maintain a single copper pair, I can't even maintain a single Netflix stream. But I should pay them $40/month for it anyway, because it includes "free long distance".

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#62
post #31
post #15

>Of course, not everyone's home Internet is terrible. I dispute this. Is Google Fiber all right? Do you Silicon Valley folks get decent service? Because out here in the real world, ISPs are uniformly horrible. I haven't met or talked to anyone on the entire Internet who is satisfied, or simply not constantly enraged, by their ISP. It seems every single one is corrupt and incompetent at the same time.

There's a sizable portion of the country that has Verizon Fios - in a random suburb of Dallas, I can get 75/35 for ~$80 with no data caps. It's not amazing, but it's not horrid.

What's so frustrating is that only some sections of some large metro areas (like Los Angeles and Dallas) can get it. Looking at the FIOS map from broadbandreports[1], there's no FIOS availability within the 635 ring east of I-35, which is most (all?) of Dallas proper.

The main places with solid FIOS coverage are in the northeast: most major metro areas in the VA Beach-DC-NYC-Boston corridor. And Pittsburgh. And Ft. Wayne, IN. Because Ft. Wayne clearly needs FTTP more than Indianapolis.

Most other municipalities in the rest of the country are either locked into exclusivity contracts with other providers, or can't be bothered to give their residents real choice of good providers, or Verizon doesn't want the initial outlay for infrastructure costs for more deployment at this time, or some combination.

[1] https://secure.dslreports.com/gmaps/fios

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#63
post #15

>Of course, not everyone's home Internet is terrible. I dispute this. Is Google Fiber all right? Do you Silicon Valley folks get decent service? Because out here in the real world, ISPs are uniformly horrible. I haven't met or talked to anyone on the entire Internet who is satisfied, or simply not constantly enraged, by their ISP. It seems every single one is corrupt and incompetent at the same time.

It's true that TWC and Comcast are the worst of all. But I have to disagree, not all providers suck. In my current town (Clifton, NJ) we can get Verizon FIOS and Optimum. Both providers are fighting fiercely for customers. I used FIOS for a year and it was great, no caps,full speeds and good support. I later switched to Optimum and it is fantastic, I've never been so happy with a service provider, they upgraded most…

that's because you have competition. Most of the places have no chioce. They are either stuck with optimum or verizon dsl. So you are in a minority. Also, clifton, nj is a rich neighborhood, thats why probably you have both fios and optimum.

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure 1-10 Mbps seemed super-fast 10 years ago It's plenty fast now, too. Good-quality 1080p H.264 video is 3Mbps. 6Mbps is 50GB/day. If this is not enough, you most likely have a software problem. Not that we shouldn't strive for progress, but most of the complains in these comments are completely different from the rural horror stories of the article - they're taking for granted development that isn't actually…

> It's plenty fast now, too. ...If this is not enough, you most likely have a software problem. And 640k should be enough memory for anybody. The problem here is that decent internet access (10-30mbps per person) is cheap to deploy, and easy to do, when there are no other problems standing in the way. (For instance, when the cable company doesn't buy off the local government). Apologizing for phone and cable companie…

> Apologizing for phone and cable companies who are raking in record profits doesn't help us in any way.

I'm certainly not apologizing for the cable companies. I'm pointing out that complaining about them while continuing to contribute to their record profits accomplishes little.

> switch to one of the dozens of companies who all resell the same 2mb AT&T ADSL line

I would wager many of the people reading this thread live in a metroish area where they can get non-ATT DSL (even if its provided over ATT copper). If the copper is really terrible, a sane ISP should be willing to bond multiple lines together. And I'd assert that many more people would be able to choose this option if the market on these services hadn't dropped out because of a myopic concentration on advertised speed led everyone to think cable was the only option.

Please, push for cable networks to be considered public communications infrastructure and subject to ILEC/CLEC style deregulation, and work to build municipal IP networks. But until that actually happens, don't prematurely deprecate all competition in the ISP space because you want to pretend to live in the future.

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably had a choice to opt out. I must pay $50/month to Comcast for TV service in my apartment in the DC suburbs, whether I use it or not (and I don't). I then pay them $80 more for Internet. The only other option is wireless.

... how does that work? Was it a part of your lease agreement, or a mandatory part of your ISP's offer?

Yes, it's one of the apartment's hidden fees. I'm sure the apartment gets a cut.

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#66
post #15

>Of course, not everyone's home Internet is terrible. I dispute this. Is Google Fiber all right? Do you Silicon Valley folks get decent service? Because out here in the real world, ISPs are uniformly horrible. I haven't met or talked to anyone on the entire Internet who is satisfied, or simply not constantly enraged, by their ISP. It seems every single one is corrupt and incompetent at the same time.

I love my ISP, CondoInternet. $60, 100M symmetric. Upgrade to 1000 available. Free static IP, full IPv6 support.

Same. The only downside is that the buildings they provide service to are horrendously expensive.

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#67
post #15

>Of course, not everyone's home Internet is terrible. I dispute this. Is Google Fiber all right? Do you Silicon Valley folks get decent service? Because out here in the real world, ISPs are uniformly horrible. I haven't met or talked to anyone on the entire Internet who is satisfied, or simply not constantly enraged, by their ISP. It seems every single one is corrupt and incompetent at the same time.

Might be an American thing. In Europe things aren't so bad.

I live in Poland and I have a pretty good connection (think ~60MB for $15 a month), and for years I never really had any problems with my ISP. That is not to say they aren't any crap providers out there. The rule of thumb is: landline and mobile phone company give crappy, capped, unreliable Internet for riddiculous prices; cable TV companies give good, high-speed, high-reliability connection very cheaply.

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the kind of knee-jerk entitlement I'm talking about. I'm guessing if connection speeds were 10x higher, you'd still be making similar arguments for why the slower one was also completely unacceptable. I'd love a 100mbit home connection as well, but we don't have those and signing up for cable is a very stressful way to pretend. As for the current practicalities - first, two of these streams would fit…

I probably wouldn't, my service is around 12Mbit, it is fast enough for me and I've rarely saturated it. I fully understand that (like CPUs and memory) the tech will grow to fill the space provided. You claimed a 1-10Mbit/second data connection was fast enough but essentially made the argument from the standpoint of a single user of that connection. Home connections are often multi-user so by your calculations they a…

I saturate my 10/1Mbit all the time. I've had a 16GB disk image uploading for the past few days, and it will be going for a few more. It would be great if it was done in a few hours, but current consumer connections simply won't do that. If I had cable, I'm sure Time Warner would have throttled the transfer right down and it would have taken a similarly-stymieing amount of time. Either way I have to wait, but this way I'm not also tearing my hair out hating my ISP and wondering when they're going to jack my price or send me a nastygram.

As for entertainment, torrents seem to work for me. If you're looking for a branded service to contribute money to the destruction of the Internet, then I've got to wonder why you'd have any issue with the cable companies besides price.

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably wouldn't, my service is around 12Mbit, it is fast enough for me and I've rarely saturated it. I fully understand that (like CPUs and memory) the tech will grow to fill the space provided. You claimed a 1-10Mbit/second data connection was fast enough but essentially made the argument from the standpoint of a single user of that connection. Home connections are often multi-user so by your calculations they a…

I saturate my 10/1Mbit all the time. I've had a 16GB disk image uploading for the past few days, and it will be going for a few more. It would be great if it was done in a few hours, but current consumer connections simply won't do that. If I had cable, I'm sure Time Warner would have throttled the transfer right down and it would have taken a similarly-stymieing amount of time. Either way I have to wait, but this wa…

So I like paying people for a service that satisfies a desire. That means I have to like cable companies too (who I've not dealt with in 2 years)?

Do you have another means of contributing to the artists, actors, directors, crews that make the shows/movies you torrent so that they can receive compensation and continue to make the media you enjoy? Or do you strictly avoid all media that isn't CC-licensed?

Re: Internet horror stories: How ISPs screwed over users

#70
post #16
post #12

Lately, I don't mind connection speeds as much as I care about absurd data caps. It's almost 2014, for god sake. Are we still having to fight for our data usage?

Because anyone who uses more than 5GB a month is a pirate, don't you know?

It's ridiculous considering the variety of activities that require internet. According to the usage chart for the last few months when I log into TWC our house uses more than 5GB a day (we have 3 adults and a kid in the house).
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