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How to do a startup in your spare time

blog.bellebethcooper.com

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Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#11

Post by soneca »

SandB0x wrote: post #3

I have a list of concerns and questions as I am doing something similar. Would be interested to see what you make of it: What does your boss/supervisor think of your startup? How much do you talk about it at work? Are you worried that your full-time employer will think you're doing your work on their time? Are you worried that you may be technically doing your work on their computers (even by logging into Asana or a…

Much more worthy set of questions. I quit my job a year ago, learn to code a little, build some projects, and for 3 months I've been a full-time founder. But now I have to pay the bills (and still no traction), so I will start a day-job. But before that, I founded a startup while at my last day-job. It was kind of unique, as my boss didn't have any problem at all with it, even allowing me to work on it during work hours (as long as I did my job, reach my goals). Well, what I think:

- Talk as little as possible. Even if you have a very transparent, honest relationship with you boss. If your boss might find detrimental you to have a startup, don't talk at all.

- Never use the company's computer to any kind of work on your startup. For emergencies (and you must really have a high treshold for emergencies) use your smartphone. But try to do everything out of work hour (before, after and during lunch).

- If you have a day-job you won't have an ideal startup management. Accept it. So forget about mentors, you won't be the co-founder doing the fundraise with investors (if all the co-founders have day-job, there would be no fundraising at all). You will try to prove the concept, maybe some traction. Only when you quit you start fundraise (if you need it). Meeting with clients, only on lunch. Meeting with co-founder, only in the evenings and weekends (if your co-founders can't do it, than you have a deeper problem here).

- Urgent emails only through smartphone. And be criterious about "urgency".

- If you are founding a startup with a day-job you must have already decided that, at the first time possible, you will quit your job to work full-time. There is no "consideration", it must be inherent to found a startup. And about the criteria to do it, I think the best one is enough revenue or funding to pay your own salary. But set a reasonable goal for your salary, don't expect to make the same as your day-job, calculate your minimum life cost possible and that's it. Funding is good, but if all co-founders have day-jobs, it will be just a illusion, so don't consider it.

If you start to manage better your risk-aversion, you may use the traction criteria. When you discover that you have a product people want, do some math with your reservers, calculate how many months you can go without income, if it is more than 6 months, go for it

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#12

Post by pc86 »

SandB0x wrote: post #3

I have a list of concerns and questions as I am doing something similar. Would be interested to see what you make of it: What does your boss/supervisor think of your startup? How much do you talk about it at work? Are you worried that your full-time employer will think you're doing your work on their time? Are you worried that you may be technically doing your work on their computers (even by logging into Asana or a…

Not the author but I've done something similar before, so here's what I can offer:

> What does your boss/supervisor think of your startup?

My boss had no reason to know, although she eventually found out through other means. It didn't affect my day job at all so it was a non-issue. I had no reason to bring it up and neither did she.

> How much do you talk about it at work?

Not at all. Work is for work.

> Are you worried that your full-time employer will think you're doing your work on their time?

They knew me well enough to know that I would never do that to them.

> Are you worried that you may be technically doing your work on their computers (even by logging into Asana or a similar site)?

Do not do anything on work hardware, ever. In many parts of the US this may actually entitle them to something (though IANAL and don't want to open that can of worms). Just don't do it. There's no reason to.

Ideally, you wouldn't even do startup-related things on your personal hardware (e.g. phone) during work hours or while at work.

> How do you juggle meeting clients, contacts, mentors, other cofounders, with your day job?

The job I had when I was doing this had an owner who was a butts-in-the-office type (part of why I left). Because of this, the simple answer was "I didn't," unless it was over lunch. If the folks your meeting with know you're working full-time - they probably should - then they'll know you can't meet for coffee at 10 AM. Most of the time they will be impressed that you respect your employer enough not to use their time to build your business.

The job I have now is not so stringent on time. I could go have coffee with someone at 10 AM if I had a really good reason (up to me to decide), and we all put in enough hours that nobody is counting how long you're away from the desk.

> How do you send urgent emails related to your startup in your day job?

As I said earlier, work is for work. It needs to be really bad to require attention from you when you're being paid by your employer to do what they want.

I obviously can't answer the last point, but I'd like to leave you with one thought. It would be great if everyone had the time, ability, and means to bootstrap a business on the side while getting paid full time, but the unfortunate truth is that some people don't. You may have a job that required you to sign something prohibiting it explicitly. You may just have a job that is too close to your passion such that any business would be a competitor. Or, you may just have an asshole boss who makes you work 60-80 hours a week for a 2% raise and a $300 Christmas bonus.

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#13

Post by edw519 »

Sorry to say but this post really rubbed me the wrong way. Let me explain...

Her important headings for "doing a startup in your spare time":

  - Managing tasks
  - Sharing links
  - Talking to other founders
  - Emailing customers
  - Blogging
  - Weekly catch-ups
All of this stuff sounds nice, but face it, it's all fluff. We really need to talk about the elephant in the room, the single most important item in a part time startup: how to get stuff built. If you can't get it built in your spare time, none of this other stuff will matter.

Building anything of value tends to be difficult; doing it in your spare time is incredibly difficult. Here's why:

- In spite of you best efforts, you will be too tired after your day job.

- When you're "in the zone" you won't be able to work on your start-up. When your working on your start-up, you won't be able to get "into the zone".

- You won't have long enough blocks of time to get large chunks done.

- Your attention will more easily be diverted to other things (the day job).

- It takes so much longer to have a deliverable, you will lose momentum and interest and get easily distracted or drawn to something shinier.

So what should you do? 3 things, religiously:

1. Determine your "Big Fat What". Have a precise definition of exactly what you're going to build. That's right, you must write requirements to yourself. Following the path of least resistance simply won't work for a part-time start-up because you will never be able to sustain enough momentum. Writing requirements forces you to have better discipline and better plan, and it's also the kind of work that fits nicely into those 2 hour blocks of time you have during the week.

2. Determine your "Big Fat How". This is when you translate your requirements into technical specs. You know, program definitions and flows, page layouts, data base schemas, etc. Yes, again you will be writing specs to yourself. Steps 1 & 2 are kinda like linear algebra; you'll spend a lot of time doing seemingly mindless unnecessary steps to get to the where you really want to be...

3. Build it. You do this on weekends when you have large enough blocks of time to crank. But your capability to build will only be as good as your preparation. As you struggle with Step 3, you'll appreciate Steps 1 & 2 and get better at them. Then you'll be surprised at how much progress you can make building in your spare time.

Once you have something built (a true feat in any part-time start-up) then (and only then) do OP's suggestions come into play.

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#14

Post by joshsharp »

Co-founder here - let me respond to some of the concerns voiced here. Firstly, I think if this was titled "what we use to help us do a startup in our spare time", it would make a little more sense. We are not advocating for any particular approach. This is more a list of things that help us.

Doing a startup in your spare time is really, really hard. We could've launched months ago but with limited time we're forced to keep pushing back. There are benefits to this — it keeps you really lean, because you just don't have time for all the little extras. But I'd still rather have more time, especially in big blocks. Our main time is evenings and weekends, which limits us severely.

Belle works full-time for Buffer doing content, and they're incredibly supportive of us and Exist. Working for a startup who have been there not so long ago is probably one of the points to mention which make this more sustainable. Belle's time is flexible as she works remotely, meaning she can make time in her day for meetings, emails, etc., and still be able to complete her work for Buffer.

And I'm freelancing at the moment, meaning my time is just as flexible (in theory — if you're flat-out, that doesn't mean much).

I think edw519's points are good complement in terms of actually building your product and managing your time.

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#15

Post by startupjerkfest »

SandB0x wrote: post #3

I have a list of concerns and questions as I am doing something similar. Would be interested to see what you make of it: What does your boss/supervisor think of your startup? How much do you talk about it at work? Are you worried that your full-time employer will think you're doing your work on their time? Are you worried that you may be technically doing your work on their computers (even by logging into Asana or a…

I am saddened that you even ask questions like this. The proper answer should be obvious. If you can't figure this out for yourself, you won't be able to tackle the much larger problems a startup brings :(

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#16

Post by mooreds »

soneca wrote: post #11
SandB0x wrote: post #3

I have a list of concerns and questions as I am doing something similar. Would be interested to see what you make of it: What does your boss/supervisor think of your startup? How much do you talk about it at work? Are you worried that your full-time employer will think you're doing your work on their time? Are you worried that you may be technically doing your work on their computers (even by logging into Asana or a…

Much more worthy set of questions. I quit my job a year ago, learn to code a little, build some projects, and for 3 months I've been a full-time founder. But now I have to pay the bills (and still no traction), so I will start a day-job. But before that, I founded a startup while at my last day-job. It was kind of unique, as my boss didn't have any problem at all with it, even allowing me to work on it during work ho…

Great advice, but:

"- Talk as little as possible. Even if you have a very transparent, honest relationship with you boss. If your boss might find detrimental you to have a startup, don't talk at all."

I think it is better to talk about the possibility of a startup on your own time during the interview process. This has the side effect of filtering out jobs with controlling bosses. (You may not have this luxury, though.)

Our tech agreement lets someone list a set of technologies they own that they are bringing with them, and explicitly renounces the company's ownership of them. It's also useful to understand and review any agreements you sign when accepting employment.

I have a side project that I told my boss about when accepting employment. And I started another one while employed.

I guess it depends on whether you think forgiveness is better than permission, and how your boss is, but as a manager I would rather know someone has a startup project.

You shouldn't consider a startup on the side without reading and understanding this onstartups.com q&a: http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-...

One other important point: if your startup is orthogonal to your current work, everyone is probably going to be more comfortable. If not, I'd seriously consider postponing the startup, just to avoid a sticky situation where your employer is concerned you took domain knowledge/contacts from your day job to improve your startup.

All the rest of this advice is fantastic. A clear separation of startup and day job is important.

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#17

Post by ColinWright »

edw519 wrote: post #13

Sorry to say but this post really rubbed me the wrong way. Let me explain... Her important headings for "doing a startup in your spare time": - Managing tasks - Sharing links - Talking to other founders - Emailing customers - Blogging - Weekly catch-ups All of this stuff sounds nice, but face it, it's all fluff. We really need to talk about the elephant in the room, the single most important item in a part time start…

I came here largely to say this, but once again you've expressed my thoughts more completely, clearly, and authoritatively than I ever could.

Thank you. Again.

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#18

Post by rst »

pc86 wrote: post #12
SandB0x wrote: post #3

I have a list of concerns and questions as I am doing something similar. Would be interested to see what you make of it: What does your boss/supervisor think of your startup? How much do you talk about it at work? Are you worried that your full-time employer will think you're doing your work on their time? Are you worried that you may be technically doing your work on their computers (even by logging into Asana or a…

Not the author but I've done something similar before, so here's what I can offer: > What does your boss/supervisor think of your startup? My boss had no reason to know, although she eventually found out through other means. It didn't affect my day job at all so it was a non-issue. I had no reason to bring it up and neither did she. > How much do you talk about it at work? Not at all. Work is for work. > Are you worr…

FWIW, some folks may have employment contracts with $dayjob which give that company intellectual property claims on all technical work by employees whether done on or off the job. The extent of those claims obviously depends on the contract itself, and enforceability varies by jurisdiction. (California is better on this than most US States, but even there, employers with a will may have enough wiggle room to make trouble for an employee with a side project that's taking off.)

So, if you're actually trying the "ignorance is bliss" strategy for managing $dayjob relation, then consulting a lawyer up front could save you an awful lot of trouble later.

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#19

Post by startupjerkfest »

edw519 wrote: post #13

Sorry to say but this post really rubbed me the wrong way. Let me explain... Her important headings for "doing a startup in your spare time": - Managing tasks - Sharing links - Talking to other founders - Emailing customers - Blogging - Weekly catch-ups All of this stuff sounds nice, but face it, it's all fluff. We really need to talk about the elephant in the room, the single most important item in a part time start…

Ed, you have the power of experience, and your suggestions are all good.

But I can't figure out why you even bothered to comment about her posting. If you had to "educate" every startup hipster on what is wrong with their self aggrandizing blog posts, you would never have time to produce anything. Were you afraid other founders would take her musing as "law" and ruin their lives? I think the less attention these interruptions get, the better chance they will die out of pop culture, and more production can get done. I can't believe i'm wasting my time writing this.

Re: How to do a startup in your spare time

#20

Post by jebblue »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #6
hatu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more like a how to be a startup hipster in your spare time- guide. Just missing tips like where to order your single estate coffee for your hacker space. Managing to juggle two demanding jobs at once is very difficult and what tools you use are pretty irrelevant.

Even the start-up sounds like a joke. Just a bunch of semi-insightful metrics on a flat dashboard...ugh...er, I mean, yeah there's definitely a market for that.

I thought a web app that lets users upload pictures was so easy there's no way you could make much money with it.
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