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David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

theguardian.com

11–20 of 373 posts

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#11
The speech appears flawless at first read.

It comes from the FODI about a month ago which summarizes to (sorry if this offends) a more interesting TED than TED.

http://fodi.sydneyoperahouse.com/

If only I could subscribe to a RSS feed of FODI speeches...

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#12
post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

I think it was a good speech, but because it was so emotional, and not rational. In fact, he was dismissive of any arguments as anything other than his own. To call all other forms of thought juvenile, and simply say "we are either together or not" sounds like the content of a great political speech, not a well articulated debate.

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#13
post #12
post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

I think it was a good speech, but because it was so emotional, and not rational. In fact, he was dismissive of any arguments as anything other than his own. To call all other forms of thought juvenile, and simply say "we are either together or not" sounds like the content of a great political speech, not a well articulated debate.

O, if only he had linked to the Mises Institute a few more times!

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#14

When I see arguments like this one, I always remember the little known fact that Adam Smith was a moral philosopher before he wrote about economics. A fundamental principle for capitalism is that people will behave morally and be compassionate. Without a moral society, no matter what system you're talking about, that society will always collapse. I think David Simon, and many other modern critics of capitalism, have…

As well as Smith, I am reminded of Bastiat: “Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state…

> The problem in the US isn't capitalism, it's that the government interferes extensively in the economy.

Well... maybe the problem is that the economy interferes extensively in the government.

> Building a society is the responsibility of each individual who values it. Using government force in pursuit of that goal leads only to the co-option and disenfranchisement Simon complains about.

Individuals have to band together to accomplish things because at some point one individual isn't enough. In democratic society such a banding, supported by the people and for the people, is called a government.

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#15
post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing

Is this idea actually being implemented anywhere? Isn't education, even in the US, almost wholly sponsored by the government? People talk about student loans but those are also guaranteed by the government, right? And then the government grants those loans special status by preventing you from ever discharging them in case of bankruptcy.

I don't know if the market could remove divides but neither does anyone else because it's a completely untested hypothesis.

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#16
post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

Can the Nordic model work in every country, though? All of the Nordic countries have trade surpluses, especially when you look at the per-capita numbers. How would this work in a country of large trade deficits like the US?

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as Smith, I am reminded of Bastiat: “Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state…

> The problem in the US isn't capitalism, it's that the government interferes extensively in the economy. Well... maybe the problem is that the economy interferes extensively in the government. > Building a society is the responsibility of each individual who values it. Using government force in pursuit of that goal leads only to the co-option and disenfranchisement Simon complains about. Individuals have to band tog…

>Well... maybe the problem is that the economy interferes extensively in the government.

Well... maybe the government shouldn't have so much power that when influenced it can cause so much harm.

Re: David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

#19
post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

>Are we all in this together or are we all not?

Vague drivel capped by an appeal to emotion. 10/10.

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