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Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

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Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#11

Post by gress »

pg wrote: post #2

It's a common misconception that a startup describing itself as x of/for y is a sign of lack of originality. A lot of original ideas-- perhaps most good original ideas-- are initially conceived of as x of/for y. Plus it is a good tactic, which we actively encourage, for startups to describe themselves in those terms initially. It may not describe a startup perfectly, but it's the the most information you can convey i…

While that misconception is true, it doesn't negate the point that there are a lot of start-ups that are just playing house, trying to act like a start up in the hope that they'll strike it lucky.

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#12

Post by yajoe »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #3

The author confuses the language of ' for ' with a copy of. If you are the 'Uber of Dog Walking' you are not a copy of Uber. Instead you have taken one part of the Uber puzzle, "on demand access using a smart phone" and applied it to the problem of finding a dog walker [1]. The sort of language arises because these techniques and technologies are created without names. In the physical world, you might have something…

Like you, I place little weight on the findings from a few keyword searches. Such vacuous analysis.

That said, there are a few incentives in play for the "X for Y" or " for " language and why to use it over more simple, implementation-free descriptive text:

1. Newly-entered startups: Your wonderful description about why it is more efficient. See above :)

2. companies (the Ubers and AirBnBs): Having other people constantly repeat the Uber and AirBnB label is brand advertising. Period. The Uber and AirBnB brands have good penetration in the HN demographic, but they are unknown to >50% of the US and >70% of the world. Those companies need advertising to fuel growth, so they have an incentive to encourage this practice since it's free for them AND a lot of startups are getting press in the midwest, etc.

3. Stakeholders (investors, accelerators, etc): Moreover, using in the context of another upstart business suggests that was successful. When you say Uber for pizza, you are suggesting that Uber is both a successful model and a successful business. That makes both Uber and Uber's Stakeholders look really good. It's a form of social proof, which is especially valuable in this boom.

And remember, the Stakeholders eventually make their money in an IPO and not from direct profits. These Stakeholders have a strong incentive to convince others that is a good business and worth mimicking in another market. "Look at all the others who followed suit." The Stakeholders need more fundraising rounds. And at a place like YC, you'll hear how it's a good idea because when you go looking to find the that matches you, you're more likely to pick a from here.

And at the end of the day, using "X for Y" is co-branding ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-branding ). It is a tool that has positive and negative aspects. In some places saying you are "Uber for pizza" means you are willing to skirt local health codes to deliver pizza faster than it takes to cook...

My advice is to recognize the " for " as a derivative of co-branding, and to understand the incentives in play for the advice on how to use it.

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#13

Post by meerita »

agilebyte wrote: post #6

Surprised to not see a mention of Samwer brothers. astoundingly unoriginal we’ll have to contend with the continued unoriginality of Silicon Valley Who is we? As a customer of startups originality does not register on my radar when evaluating a product and language like "uber for" makes it easier for me to understand what the product is probably about.

Aye, I spotted that one too.

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#14

Post by auctiontheory »

When pitching a (traditional, paper, fiction) book to an agent or publisher, the standard advice is to provide a frame of reference by explaining your work as "X for Y."

It has nothing to do with copying and everything to do with making your pitch understood.

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#15

Post by pg »

crassus wrote: post #9
tomasien wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to write "Airbnb itself described itself as "Ebay for space" - it's extremely relevant. It's just a rhetorical device to help someone understand a complex issue, it's rarely if ever how you actually came UP with the idea - it's just how you explain it. There is a problem with this though - for example, I'm working on something right now that if you can't see the demo (let's say we're on a phone call), it's…

Slightly OT, but what's up with the rise of the anti-tech media on the east coast? Who reads that trash anyway? It's all about weird tech CEOs, accusations of prejudice, accusations of unoriginality, and the like.

I think it's because startups have been doing well lately. Whenever anything is doing well, its reputation contains a sort of potential energy that can be exploited by someone attacking it.

E.g. "I found a mistake in Einstein's math" is going to get you a lot more attention than "I found a mistake in my next door neighbor's math."

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#16

Post by pg »

gress wrote: post #11
pg wrote: post #2

It's a common misconception that a startup describing itself as x of/for y is a sign of lack of originality. A lot of original ideas-- perhaps most good original ideas-- are initially conceived of as x of/for y. Plus it is a good tactic, which we actively encourage, for startups to describe themselves in those terms initially. It may not describe a startup perfectly, but it's the the most information you can convey i…

While that misconception is true, it doesn't negate the point that there are a lot of start-ups that are just playing house, trying to act like a start up in the hope that they'll strike it lucky.

True, but there are wannabees in every field where the people who succeed become rich or famous. There's nothing newsworthy about that sort of background radiation lameness. Or more precisely, it's one of the recipes for an Onion article.

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#18

Post by tomasien »

pg wrote: post #15
crassus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly OT, but what's up with the rise of the anti-tech media on the east coast? Who reads that trash anyway? It's all about weird tech CEOs, accusations of prejudice, accusations of unoriginality, and the like.

I think it's because startups have been doing well lately. Whenever anything is doing well, its reputation contains a sort of potential energy that can be exploited by someone attacking it. E.g. "I found a mistake in Einstein's math" is going to get you a lot more attention than "I found a mistake in my next door neighbor's math."

I'm not sure if you use Facebook, but on Facebook there is a constant wave of quotes mis-attributed to Einstein and Thomas Jefferson. It's really interesting, they all get 10000's of shares. Somebody somewhere (or just the crowd accidentally) A/B tested a ton of different historical figures and came out with Einstein and TJ.

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#19

Post by tomasien »

crassus wrote: post #9
tomasien wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to write "Airbnb itself described itself as "Ebay for space" - it's extremely relevant. It's just a rhetorical device to help someone understand a complex issue, it's rarely if ever how you actually came UP with the idea - it's just how you explain it. There is a problem with this though - for example, I'm working on something right now that if you can't see the demo (let's say we're on a phone call), it's…

Slightly OT, but what's up with the rise of the anti-tech media on the east coast? Who reads that trash anyway? It's all about weird tech CEOs, accusations of prejudice, accusations of unoriginality, and the like.

W/R/T who reads it, one of my best friends LOVES Valleywag and I ask him about it all the time. He thinks SV is just up its own ass (maybe), especially as it relates to social issues (yes) and that makes it like hate porn for him. I suppose that makes an ounce of sense, but the criticism of the businesses and innovation themselves feel out of place in that environment.

The other side is just haters, there's been a recent wave of really awesome startups that are growing fast and doing great stuff, and haters are looking for something to hate. I know some people don't like to see the term "hater" used like that, but man is it useful!

Re: Hundreds of Start-Ups Hope to Be a Copycat Start-Up

#20

Post by 6cxs2hd6 »

crassus wrote: post #9
tomasien wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to write "Airbnb itself described itself as "Ebay for space" - it's extremely relevant. It's just a rhetorical device to help someone understand a complex issue, it's rarely if ever how you actually came UP with the idea - it's just how you explain it. There is a problem with this though - for example, I'm working on something right now that if you can't see the demo (let's say we're on a phone call), it's…

Slightly OT, but what's up with the rise of the anti-tech media on the east coast? Who reads that trash anyway? It's all about weird tech CEOs, accusations of prejudice, accusations of unoriginality, and the like.

Are you saying the New York Times is trash? If so, I disagree. Although I wouldn't put any institution on a pedestal, I would say that the NYT is demonstrably a non-trashy news organization. Demonstrable in part by the fact you don't love everything they write about your precious industry or coast -- that is in fact an indication that they're doing a good job, i.e. not pleasing everyone all the time.
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