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Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

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Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#11
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

currently, sending money over the internet without getting charged fees is non-trivial. with the number of players in the payment space, i don't expect that to be the case for very much longer, and i don't think it will be bitcoin that solves this problem.

Curious--how/who will solve this problem?

This is exactly what Ripple is attempting to solve, acting as a open, global payment network where transactions are nearly free and you can use any currency (including bitcoin) you want. More at https://ripple.com/about-ripple/.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#12
Bitcoin is a hedge on currencies, where you can turn it into other currencies there is value in it. Currencies always move in different directions and there will always be demand there. The generation is also created by the bitcoin network so there will always be activity for some time.

When you can't trade it for the USD then it is over. In fact maybe it will evolve nation currencies. I love what it is shaking up.

But just like currencies of countries there will be currencies now not bound to countries, that live well beyond the country maybe. It actually prevents gaming a country's currency too much (no artificially low currencies).

It is like gold in that you can't take a coin of gold down to the store but it has more chance to be a mainstream currency because it is digital. All money is digital, it can fit in much nicer than gold as well as having gold like properties. Bitcoin is actually better placed for hedging currencies and everyday usage than gold.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#13
post #5

Here's something I've never seen addressed by bitcoin apologists. Tell me why I should "adopt" BTC if I'm not: (a) speculating (b) interesting in buying drugs or circumventing regulations around international money transfers. I see no utility in paying for software or coffee in BTC. Getting hold of bitcoin is not a straightforward process, and even once you acquire them, your coins are fluctuating in value all the ti…

I put some money into Bitcoin recently. I'm speculating.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#14
post #7
post #5

Here's something I've never seen addressed by bitcoin apologists. Tell me why I should "adopt" BTC if I'm not: (a) speculating (b) interesting in buying drugs or circumventing regulations around international money transfers. I see no utility in paying for software or coffee in BTC. Getting hold of bitcoin is not a straightforward process, and even once you acquire them, your coins are fluctuating in value all the ti…

You're doing well with your credit card because your bank allows you to do so. Just a few days ago my debit card was blocked because I was traveling internationally and the bank suspected that it was stolen. That's great, they're trying to protect me. But then, the only way to get it unblocked was to visit the bank in person.. but I was 10,000 miles away! I tried to reason with them over the phone but they wouldn't l…

>Not a single entity in the world will stand between you and that delicious brew.

Except the exchange rate. Your 1/300th of a coin might buy you coffee if it is a good day, but the next day it might cost 1/100th of a coin.

I just bought in because I'm hoping that what I can buy with 1/100th of a coin will only cost 1/300th by Christmas.

Bitcoin is having a bad day and I hope to capitalize on it. Having bought at $650 I will be sad if it turns out that the new price is $500, and happy if BAML was right and we are off to $1300.

But All of your arguments fall down in that you are either using an exchange to get from currency to BTC. Or you are keeping coins in a wallet and they could swing 50% in value in a day.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#15
Bitcoin only gets its value from scarcity if you look at it from the context of a traditional currency.

It's volatile because there is a lot of speculation going on; there is a lot of speculation going on because nobody has figured out how to value it against a traditional currency yet (in other words: speculation transactions outweigh productive transactions e.g. the proverbial alpaca sock).

While there is scarcity - and said scarcity is driving speculation - the intrinsic value of btc derives from the cryptographic trust in the validation of the Bitcoin blockchain, and the promise that a btc will always be accepted as a bounty on the validation of a btc transaction.

It's fundamentally different than the promise inherent in traditional currency: that a unit of currency must be accepted for the repayment of debt. Instead, a unit of currency must be accepted as a bounty on the cryptographic assurance that a transaction is not fraudulent.

What defines trust in a system, and when does that come in to play in the valuation a system?

With a satoshi sent to an address that cannot spend its balance along with the cryptographic signature of a document, you can execute a proof of existence. Distributed, mathematically validated notary.

It can also be used as a decentralized, trust-based escrow system.

The value inherent in a single btc is more abstract than a brick of gold, and has more to do with Bitcoin itself.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#16
post #5

Here's something I've never seen addressed by bitcoin apologists. Tell me why I should "adopt" BTC if I'm not: (a) speculating (b) interesting in buying drugs or circumventing regulations around international money transfers. I see no utility in paying for software or coffee in BTC. Getting hold of bitcoin is not a straightforward process, and even once you acquire them, your coins are fluctuating in value all the ti…

There's some value in press/notoriety, if you think you'd be reaching eyes and ears for those who care about that sort of thing.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#17
post #2

The article makes decent points but these things are known to most people who understand anything about money, whether that money is Bitcoin or USD. I have to say though that the opening line of the article is absolutely terrible : Bitcoin is based on the idea that money gets its intrinsic value from its scarcity.. That is a terrible thing to say. Bitcoin is not based on that. Bitcoin is currently overvalued due to s…

Bitcoin is maturing from a small stock to a growth stock then a value stock. But in comparison with other currencies, simply retaining its value is better than some fiat currency holdings and it is a wonderful hedge against it as long as it can hold its value. It could even go down but at a slower rate than nation currencies and still be useful as a hedge.

Some people are treating it as a stock currently expecting huge upsides, adoption will bring that but eventually it will calm down and if it just retains value over time it will beat out most fiat currencies.

There is obvious value to fiat currencies and inflation for fueling investment (I need to grow my shrinking dollars) but it is always nice to hedge in case.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#19
post #14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing well with your credit card because your bank allows you to do so. Just a few days ago my debit card was blocked because I was traveling internationally and the bank suspected that it was stolen. That's great, they're trying to protect me. But then, the only way to get it unblocked was to visit the bank in person.. but I was 10,000 miles away! I tried to reason with them over the phone but they wouldn't l…

>Not a single entity in the world will stand between you and that delicious brew. Except the exchange rate. Your 1/300th of a coin might buy you coffee if it is a good day, but the next day it might cost 1/100th of a coin. I just bought in because I'm hoping that what I can buy with 1/100th of a coin will only cost 1/300th by Christmas. Bitcoin is having a bad day and I hope to capitalize on it. Having bought at $650…

No, my arguments do not fall down. You are making the terribly flawed assumption that bitcoin will always be this volatile. Bitcoin is less volatile than it used to be, and with greater adoption will continue to decrease in volatility.

The volatility in bitcoin today is nothing compared to 2011. Is it still bad ? Yes. Will it continue being bad ? Probably not. The long term trend supports the assumption that volatility will decrease with greater adoption.

Furthermore volatility has little effect on the 'money transmission' element of bitcoin as long as transfers and conversions take place immediately. It's still a viable way to legally move USD from the USA to Singapore with very low fees.

Another example, I'd like to add is that I had a large part of my savings in Indian Rupees. They depreciated by 30% over the past 2 years. That's definitely pretty bad but it didn't prevent me from buying coffee. Euros have also swung around by 15-20% over the past 2-3 years. The Brazilian Real lost 25% of it's value last year. Does that make them as bad as bitcoin ?

Your motivation for getting into bitcoin is your personal choice and I certainly hope that you profit from it. However, don't forget that bitcoin is an emerging technology going through fairly rapid adoption, as such, volatility, crashing exchanges, bubbles, bubble pops, etc. will be a part of it. And of course, I have to convert money from USD to BTC. Or from Marks to Euros. Or from escudos to Euros. That's just how it works.

Re: Why Bitcoin is Volatile aka I Told You So

#20
post #5

Here's something I've never seen addressed by bitcoin apologists. Tell me why I should "adopt" BTC if I'm not: (a) speculating (b) interesting in buying drugs or circumventing regulations around international money transfers. I see no utility in paying for software or coffee in BTC. Getting hold of bitcoin is not a straightforward process, and even once you acquire them, your coins are fluctuating in value all the ti…

You can send a single satoshi* to an address that cannot spend said satoshi with the cryptographic signature of a document as the notation on it. Once the transaction is validated in the blockchain, you can prove mathematically that the document (while keeping secret the contents of the document) was published (created) on a given datetime.

*1 satoshi = 5.8e-6 USD @ current coinbase exchange, Sat Dec 07 2013 02:59:12 GMT-0500

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