Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

newsweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 162 posts

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#41

Post by anon808 »

jd_free wrote: post #18

Coverage of Mandela is a testament to the prevailing powers' ability to rewrite history. Millions of people think he was put in jail for protesting apartheid or something else noble. He was actually a terrorist leader - his group killed thousands of innocents in bombings and other attacks. The "activism" he's credited with while in prison was mostly arranging more killings. Read about a practice his group created whi…

George Washington also resorted to violence, and if you're British during the late 1700s, you might even call it terrorism.

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#42

Post by bananacurve »

Vapid articles like this are up voted on HN on the mistaken idea that this somehow is bringing America down a notch. Inaccuracies of this story aside, people that want America to fail would be much better served by actually building something useful themselves.

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#43

Post by vasilipupkin »

the_af wrote: post #32
Shivetya wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with capitalism and more to do with anything, colonialism and the Cold War. It was politics as usual, help allies to keep them. While it is easy to sit back and judge the past we have to realize that some actions were seen as prudent at the time. The nation Mandela came up in is far different from what it is today but so is the world. This by no means excuses actions of the past, but at the tim…

With this mindset, is it ever possible to judge anything? "At the time, it made sense to help racists (who happened to be our allies) imprison and possibly hang a black agitator. We now know it was wrong, but back then who knew?" Um, ok. So when is it right to denounce those who helped racist regimes?

I agree with your general point, but at the time U.S. was locked in an existential struggle with the Soviet Union and essentially was taking all sorts of actions around the world against many parties sympathetic to communist causes. Not saying it's an excuse, but it does provide some context

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#45

Post by gwern »

mrleinad wrote: post #26
jd_free wrote: post #18

Coverage of Mandela is a testament to the prevailing powers' ability to rewrite history. Millions of people think he was put in jail for protesting apartheid or something else noble. He was actually a terrorist leader - his group killed thousands of innocents in bombings and other attacks. The "activism" he's credited with while in prison was mostly arranging more killings. Read about a practice his group created whi…

This is the same bull *t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others. You can't make a revolution without guns, when the other side has all the power and lots of guns as well. Almost all independence wars (and I say almost, because there's this nice dude Gandhi, but I'm not sure it was an actual war) were fought with weapons, not with flowers and nice thoughts. If you're from the US you should know better,…

> This is the same bull*t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others.

Bullshit? Should we infer that you think Castro's Cuba was a smashing success and has totally justified all the bad things he and his followers did?

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#46

Post by danielweber »

anon808 wrote: post #41
jd_free wrote: post #18

Coverage of Mandela is a testament to the prevailing powers' ability to rewrite history. Millions of people think he was put in jail for protesting apartheid or something else noble. He was actually a terrorist leader - his group killed thousands of innocents in bombings and other attacks. The "activism" he's credited with while in prison was mostly arranging more killings. Read about a practice his group created whi…

George Washington also resorted to violence, and if you're British during the late 1700s, you might even call it terrorism.

There seem to be people who think that Mandela was a pacifist like Ghandi. I can buy the "was justified in the use of violence" angle, but he was supported the use of violence for political ends enough that Amnesty International refused to call him a Prisoner of Conscience at the time.

People are not totally good or totally evil.

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#47

Post by tcdent »

gwern wrote: post #45
mrleinad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same bull *t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others. You can't make a revolution without guns, when the other side has all the power and lots of guns as well. Almost all independence wars (and I say almost, because there's this nice dude Gandhi, but I'm not sure it was an actual war) were fought with weapons, not with flowers and nice thoughts. If you're from the US you should know better,…

> This is the same bull*t that is thrown at Castro, Che Guevara, and many others. Bullshit? Should we infer that you think Castro's Cuba was a smashing success and has totally justified all the bad things he and his followers did?

Care to elaborate on "all of the bad things"? If there's anything to take away from this discussion on Mandela, it's that there are a lot of misunderstandings about what actually happened, especially if you are primarily informed by American media.

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#48

Post by wavefunction »

moolriaz wrote: post #40

Shocked by how misinformed people are about Mandela/Apartheid, or by the amount of trolling going on here. Thousands of white people have not died in SA thanks to Mandela. Mandela was not a 'terrorist'. Apartheid was BAD, and still affects the country significantly today. Here's some context for you. This all applied pre 1994/2: I am a non white South African. The only reason I got a good education was because with t…

Thanks for your take. The people calling Mandela a terrorist don't know what they're talking about.

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#49

Post by yequalsx »

moolriaz wrote: post #40

Shocked by how misinformed people are about Mandela/Apartheid, or by the amount of trolling going on here. Thousands of white people have not died in SA thanks to Mandela. Mandela was not a 'terrorist'. Apartheid was BAD, and still affects the country significantly today. Here's some context for you. This all applied pre 1994/2: I am a non white South African. The only reason I got a good education was because with t…

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. I too am shocked. That the United States actively supported the Apartheid regime is a great national shame. I'm friends with a woman who grew up in South Africa. She is white. The stories she tells about the attitudes and what happened there during the Apartheid regime are revolting. She thinks Mandela is a saint and is very grateful for his leadership.

Mandela was not a terrorist. He did not deserve jail. That he came out of that experience and did not engage in a campaign of retribution is a testament to the man's greatness. Those that denigrate him do so from ignorance or lack of empathy.

Re: The Day Mandela Was Arrested, With A Little Help From the CIA

#50

Post by moolriaz »

moolriaz wrote: post #40

Shocked by how misinformed people are about Mandela/Apartheid, or by the amount of trolling going on here. Thousands of white people have not died in SA thanks to Mandela. Mandela was not a 'terrorist'. Apartheid was BAD, and still affects the country significantly today. Here's some context for you. This all applied pre 1994/2: I am a non white South African. The only reason I got a good education was because with t…

If you want to learn more about what South Africa was like for people of different races before Apartheid, and the steps that lead to Apartheid, you should read the excellent book 'Cry the Beloved Country.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cry,_the_Beloved_Country, http://www.amazon.com/Cry-Beloved-Country-Alan-Paton/dp/0743...)

The history of South Africa is unique, and you will learn something. These events are strongly connected to the discovery of gold and diamonds. Perhaps you've heard of the Rhodes scholarship? Cecil John Rhodes was a key player in these trades, and the Rhodes scholarship has a special status in SA.

Examples of previously white only areas : http://goo.gl/maps/JMQ07, http://goo.gl/maps/rz0bf

Examples of black only areas: http://tinyurl.com/pxpbwtq, http://tinyurl.com/kvxzm4l

Post reply on HN