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Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

theguardian.com

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Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#101

Post by johnzim »

da02 wrote: post #39
johnzim wrote: post #25

I grew up in Hong Kong. It didn't have the cleanest air in the world but I lived in relative good health. After I left for university I heard things were getting worse and worse although I remained sceptical. When I returned for work, the air was nowhere near as bad as it is on the mainland now but I simply couldn't survive it. Every day my lungs constricted within minutes (I have asthma.) I realised I could never re…

Was it possible for you to breathe the air in the surrounding areas? (Lantau, Macau, etc)

Last time I was back in April of this year, Lantau was a little better but realistically still not good enough to consider living there, much less bringing up kids. I ended up feeling out of breath crossing the road.

I haven't been back to Macau since I was a kid though, so it looks very different now (Thanks to Mr Ho.)

My grandfather grew up in HK too. He passed away last summer, struck down by a rather horrible respiratory based cancer. However, I'm wary of too much confirmation bias in attributing that to the pollution too. It'll be interesting to see what the respiratory disease numbers are like in the coming decades.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#102

Post by [deleted] »

biesnecker wrote: post #97
matthewrudy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and the price of international schools for your kids, right?

Nah, the last job I had there would have paid for schooling. It wouldn't pay for a hermetically sealed bubble of fresh air and water (and clean food), though.

[deleted]

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#103

Post by drcode »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #81

I see this as a difficult to fake signal that China's economic growth is more real than some folks in the West would like to believe. It is similar to the challenges faced by industrial cities in the West as they exploited the massive production capacities created during WW II. Generally the reasoning goes, high pollution from lots of power plants / factories is a function of production of those power plants / factor…

No, it's just a sign that they rely heavily on unrefined coal for power.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#104

Post by johnzim »

Guillaume86 wrote: post #63
voidlogic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who are 82 now spent most of there life living in the city before it got very bad. The real question is if people born there now will see 82...

I know but my wild guess would be that the tendency should start to show up in stats given the pollution already started years ago (?)

It's a good guess but we probably won't see the impact for a a little while. Before Deng's reforms in the 80s industry was limited and the growth in the past 10 years has been incredible. My own grandfather's health was only really significantly affected by the pollution floating over to HK in the past 3-5 years.

I'd say wait another 10 years before the true consequences start to become apparent.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#105

Post by jotm »

bigdubs wrote: post #88
nabla9 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London suffered from bad smogs almost century before they did anything to them. Great Smog was just one incident.

Hence the term "London Fog" which was not water.

China uses the term "sea mist" to dupe tourists. It's not fooling anyone, though...

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#106

Post by nobody10 »

matthewrudy wrote: post #85
thaumasiotes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who lives in China... The firewall won't bother you (assuming you wish to get around it); it's there for the masses. Any idiot with a US citizenship can get a tourist visa, lasting a year and having only the requirement "visit Hong Kong (or any other non-China location) every three months" (I was unambitious, and got a two-month one). Someone of my acquaintance says he paid a visa-help company $10…

I lived in Hong Kong 2010 to 2013, but actually ended up living in Shenzhen for most of 2011. 18 pages of my passport are taken up with visas and stamps from the mainland (plus several more from HK and Taiwan) As a Hong Kong resident I had a 6 month visa and then a 1 year China visa. Notably, though, both times it was a 30 day maximum stay, and as a UK citizen they still always just give me 30 days per entry. I know…

so you mean "I love Taiwan"

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#107

Post by polarix »

poutine wrote: post #90
Sharlin wrote: post #16

I wonder how this compares to the worst smogs experienced in London and elsewhere before the West got its act together with regard to particulate pollution. Apparently the Great Smog of 1952 killed on the order of 10000 people in just a few days. I'm not sure many young people nowadays realize how horrible the situation was just half a century ago. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952

The difference with China is that much of the entire country is covered by a blanket of smog & dust. Not just the cities, but much of the countryside as well for hundreds of km. China does things big in a way that's hard to grasp without visiting. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2478300/Pictu...

I wonder what similar satellite imagery would have shown in early/mid 20th century europe.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#108

Post by chockablock »

Sharlin wrote: post #16

I wonder how this compares to the worst smogs experienced in London and elsewhere before the West got its act together with regard to particulate pollution. Apparently the Great Smog of 1952 killed on the order of 10000 people in just a few days. I'm not sure many young people nowadays realize how horrible the situation was just half a century ago. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952

Great smog of 1952 estimated at 3000 ug/m^3 of PM10

Source: Open access journal article linked from the wikipedia page you cited ;) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1241116/pdf/ehp0...

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#109

Post by saalweachter »

Sharlin wrote: post #16

I wonder how this compares to the worst smogs experienced in London and elsewhere before the West got its act together with regard to particulate pollution. Apparently the Great Smog of 1952 killed on the order of 10000 people in just a few days. I'm not sure many young people nowadays realize how horrible the situation was just half a century ago. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952

It really irks me whenever there's a talk about nuclear energy. Nuclear power may have its own set of challenges, but coming from the baseline of coal it's hard to do worse.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#110

Post by simplemath »

Havoc wrote: post #92
petermcd wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair question. My impression here in Beijing is that people are highly dissatisfied with the pollution situation. They don't want lung cancer and they don't want their kids breathing this crap. That being said, the government is taking steps to address the issue. Specifically, due to an outcry on Weibo last year about having to get PM2.5 numbers from the US embassy's twitter feed and iPhone app (twitter is blocked, b…

>closed down barbecue pits Mind explaining what those are?

I'm guessing public barbecues
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