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Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

theguardian.com

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Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#91

Post by riquito »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #81

I see this as a difficult to fake signal that China's economic growth is more real than some folks in the West would like to believe. It is similar to the challenges faced by industrial cities in the West as they exploited the massive production capacities created during WW II. Generally the reasoning goes, high pollution from lots of power plants / factories is a function of production of those power plants / factor…

That's true, but you also earn _a lot_ of money ignoring safety measures. They're paying with their lives part of this productivity

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#92

Post by Havoc »

petermcd wrote: post #43
jkimmel wrote: post #12

Is there a level of public outcry regarding the pollution? I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government, but I can't imagine a city as large and cosmopolitan as Shanghai merely accepting this level of environmental mismanagement. Unfortunately, articles regarding Beijing/Shanghai pollution usually fail to mention public sentiment above the level of brief individual anecdote ("…

Fair question. My impression here in Beijing is that people are highly dissatisfied with the pollution situation. They don't want lung cancer and they don't want their kids breathing this crap. That being said, the government is taking steps to address the issue. Specifically, due to an outcry on Weibo last year about having to get PM2.5 numbers from the US embassy's twitter feed and iPhone app (twitter is blocked, b…

>closed down barbecue pits

Mind explaining what those are?

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#93

Post by retr0rocket »

rayiner wrote: post #52
jkimmel wrote: post #12

Is there a level of public outcry regarding the pollution? I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government, but I can't imagine a city as large and cosmopolitan as Shanghai merely accepting this level of environmental mismanagement. Unfortunately, articles regarding Beijing/Shanghai pollution usually fail to mention public sentiment above the level of brief individual anecdote ("…

> I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government There's no shame in calling a spade a spade. You correctly perceive that the brutally authoritarian PRC government both suppresses criticism and whitewashes press coverage of environmental problems in the country. As an aside, discussions with other westerners about China feels to me like having brunch with a couple where everyone…

is it really brutally authoritarian if most citizens agree with it? social stability is highly prized in china even among the citizens.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#94

Post by jliechti1 »

Sharlin wrote: post #16

I wonder how this compares to the worst smogs experienced in London and elsewhere before the West got its act together with regard to particulate pollution. Apparently the Great Smog of 1952 killed on the order of 10000 people in just a few days. I'm not sure many young people nowadays realize how horrible the situation was just half a century ago. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_1952

Has there been any long-term research done on the health effects of particulate pollution?

I was in Beijing last winter when the air pollution was nearing record highs, and every time I blew my nose after returning from being outside, it would be full of black mucus. That has to be a wakeup call.

In addition, when I returned to the states (Chicago), even the air around O'Hare Airport - probably one of the more polluted areas in the city - felt so clean to me!

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#95

Post by seanmcdirmid »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #20
matthewrudy wrote: post #10

I love China but pollution, the great firewall, and visa complications make it less attractive as somewhere to live.

Speaking as someone who lives in China... The firewall won't bother you (assuming you wish to get around it); it's there for the masses. Any idiot with a US citizenship can get a tourist visa, lasting a year and having only the requirement "visit Hong Kong (or any other non-China location) every three months" (I was unambitious, and got a two-month one). Someone of my acquaintance says he paid a visa-help company $10…

VPNs around the firewall are getting less reliable everymonth.

The visa changes made in July are much more strict than before, getting a one year non work visa is only possible if you have Chinese family. The visa companies from before no longer exist. But I have a working visa so I don't care.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#96

Post by beachstartup »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #81

I see this as a difficult to fake signal that China's economic growth is more real than some folks in the West would like to believe. It is similar to the challenges faced by industrial cities in the West as they exploited the massive production capacities created during WW II. Generally the reasoning goes, high pollution from lots of power plants / factories is a function of production of those power plants / factor…

> China's economic growth is more real than some folks in the West would like to believe

i know that people in general are racist against the chinese for all sorts of reasons, but this is the first time i've heard this one.

does anyone actually doubt china's economic growth? i mean all you have to do is go there and see it. (granted, very, very few 'experts' on china have ever actually been there)

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#97

Post by biesnecker »

matthewrudy wrote: post #11
biesnecker wrote: post #3

Sad. I love -- _love_ -- that city, but I could never live there again, not breathing that.

and the price of international schools for your kids, right?

Nah, the last job I had there would have paid for schooling. It wouldn't pay for a hermetically sealed bubble of fresh air and water (and clean food), though.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#98

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jread wrote: post #22

I lived in Utah which can get very smoggy due to winter inversions. PM2.5 levels sometimes hit 80 mcg in the winter, often the highest in the country and utterly depressing to live in.

Its a scandal when SLC hits 70 2.5PM, its just a bad day when Beijing hits 700 2.5PM. There is just no comparison.

Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai

#100

Post by veidr »

johnzim wrote: post #25

I grew up in Hong Kong. It didn't have the cleanest air in the world but I lived in relative good health. After I left for university I heard things were getting worse and worse although I remained sceptical. When I returned for work, the air was nowhere near as bad as it is on the mainland now but I simply couldn't survive it. Every day my lungs constricted within minutes (I have asthma.) I realised I could never re…

Yeah, I live in Japan, roughly 3000km from China, but we also have to deal with China's pollution.

Although not that common, we sometimes get an alert with the weather report that the levels of PM 2.5 particulate matter (overwhelmingly blown over from China) are exceeding government safety standards, and that we may want to consider keeping kids indoors.

I remember we had similar 'smog alerts' a few days a year when I was a little kid in Los Angeles in wthe 1980s, and we couldn't go out to recess. But I think that's like what we are getting here in Japan, at a great distance separated by ocean -- nothing compared to what the Chinese people in Shanghai and Beijing are suffering.

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