What did the cities look like in the US and Europe during parts of the Industrial Revolution?
I cant imagine it was as persistent and thick as some parts of China.
Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
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Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#62Is there a level of public outcry regarding the pollution? I realize that criticism may be somewhat muted given the nature of the PRC government, but I can't imagine a city as large and cosmopolitan as Shanghai merely accepting this level of environmental mismanagement. Unfortunately, articles regarding Beijing/Shanghai pollution usually fail to mention public sentiment above the level of brief individual anecdote ("…
I mean, the problem is that there's a bit of a cultural difference between Americans circa-Industrial Revolution, and the Chinese now. So saying that the Chinese will stand up and protest isn't necessarily true. I don't want to speak for all Chinese, but from what I've read -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- is that there is more of a culture of deference to authority in China. Compare this to Americans, who have a…
There are astonishing numbers of protests in China every year.[1][2] I also think the culture for factory workers during the industrial revolution was one of deference to authority, and that it took extreme conditions to spur them to protest their conditions.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_the_Peop...
[2] http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/rising-protests-i...
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's surprising is Shanghai's life expectancy being really hight (over 82). Would like to have someone with some knowledge about the subject expand a bit on the pollution/life expectancy/statictics subject (there will be consequences later? etc)
People who are 82 now spent most of there life living in the city before it got very bad. The real question is if people born there now will see 82...
I know but my wild guess would be that the tendency should start to show up in stats given the pollution already started years ago (?)
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#64Investment idea: Companies that manufacture sulfur dioxide scrubbers for coal plants.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#65I've seen sci-fi depictions of over-industrialized mega-city scapes, but I never thought I'd actually get to see a picture of one. To call that surreal is an understatement.
I guess we didn't have to wait until November 2019.
But at least we have "cheap" consumer goods!
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#66What did the cities look like in the US and Europe during parts of the Industrial Revolution? I cant imagine it was as persistent and thick as some parts of China.
As already mentioned in the thread the London "pea soupers" were as bad, or worse, than the pictures we see here.
Google image search for ["pea souper"] for images from 1950s London.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#67There's also a lack of understanding on the effects of this pollution, especially as it becomes more regular. I worked and lived in China for 7 years and just getting parents to close the windows of an obstetric hospital with newborns was difficult enough. There is a belief that "fresh air" is always better than what is in the room. When I asked nurses about the public health impact of this pollution on children, they often stared blankly back.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Kyoto protocol has to do with CO2 emissions, which are very different from the sort of particulate and sulfur pollution described in the article. Also, I have no idea whether China is actually following that treaty, but the reason the US didn't sign was that it did actually allow China to drastically increase the amount of fossil fuels it burns.
Yes, China and India are considered "developing" countries by Kyoto and can produce all the CO2 they want under the treaty, so of course they signed it. EDIT : and, of course, it was about CO2, not particulates. A country can make certain trade-offs about different types of pollution (particulates v. CO2 v. NOX).
That part doesn't seem too unfair to me, considering that China and India's per-capita emissions are still vastly below U.S. levels. It'd be one thing if they were being allowed higher-than-US-level emissions due to being classified as "developing" countries, but they aren't producing anywhere near that.
Re: Schoolchildren ordered indoors as air pollution cloaks Shanghai
#69For historical reference, here are some breathtaking photos of mid-century Pittsburgh:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155742/Hell-lid-tak...
I wonder if anyone can cite a source for one of the claims made in the article:
"Also lots of people thought that high smoke output was a sign of high productivity and that coal smoke was good for the lungs and helped crops grow."