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Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

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Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#71

Post by normloman »

Someone wrote: post #66
normloman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why don't we stop subsidizing corn so much?" Lobbyists. "Why don't we teach effective nutrition and cooking in school?" We do. It's called home economics. "Why don't we teach effective exercise, sports, and fitness in schools?" We do. It's called gym. "If we can ban alcohol and tobacco sales to children, why not things like added sugar, hydrogenated oils, corn syrup, etc?" Go tell a 6 year old they can't have cake o…

Lobbyists can't be the whole answer; tobacco hasn't had lack of lobbyists or lack of quality of lobbyists, but it got severely restricted. In the end I think the answer is "because we, society, allow it.". It is very hard to lobby for things we really do not want.

Ultimately, this is the real answer. We can overcome anything if the political will exists.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#72

Post by gph »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #39

It's worth pointing out that "losing weight" isn't a panacea for health. Yes, it would almost certainly be a very good thing for significantly overweight and obese individuals to shed pounds, period, but the article doesn't address the fact that in and of itself this is unlikely to make them "healthy." There are lots of people who are not overweight who have many of the same cardiovascular issues commonly associated…

Thank you, I couldn't believe there wasn't a quoted doctor somewhere in the article bringing up this point.

I'm not overweight, but I know I don't get quite enough exercise right now either. My blood pressure and cholesterol levels are a bit higher than normal. Nothing concerning yet, but if I let it go on like this for another decade it won't matter if I'm not technically overweight. I'll still be unhealthy and facing similar cardiovascular/metabolic problems. These things can't be solved by a diet pill.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#73

Post by drzaiusapelord »

refurb wrote: post #56
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're ultimately beholden to big business? I mean, we have no idea how many drugs work yet the FDA goes after 23andme and other organizations (selling stevia as a sweetner before they allowed it recently, etc), etc with questionable motives. I think there's an obvious double standard when it comes to big pharma. I'm not attacking the FDA per se, but the entire USG. It seems like the buck stops with congress…

Ultimately beholden to big business? Tell that to all the drug companies who have either had their drug denied by the FDA or pulled after approval [1]. [1] http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/

They played the game wrong. There are counter examples of drugs that should never have been approved rushed to approval.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#74

Post by gliese1337 »

marrs wrote: post #33
3pt14159 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously preventative measures should be our first resort. Obviously all farm subsidize (or at least those that are not in alignment with a healthy population) should be ended. But I take issue with banning sugary, hydrogenated things. The problem with the modern diet isn't that a kid drinks a Coca Cola with his McDonald's fries once a month when he goes out for a treat with his mom after swim practice. The problem…

I hear this kind of argument all the time and I don't buy it at all. How do poor people have less time to cook than well off people? We all work the same hours. Pasta costs next to nothing, as does rice, as do beans. Veg and dairy are a bit more but still cheap by any standards. Cigarettes and alcohol, on the other hand, are expensive. As is running a car, or going to McDonalds. So maybe try subsidising your meals by…

   How do poor people have less time to cook than well off people? We all work the same hours.
No, we don't all work the same hours. Maybe you're one of those hackers who works 80-hour weeks by choice, but even then, there's a big difference between working 80 hours because you can, and needing to work 60-80 hours at 2 or 3 different minimum-wage jobs (unlike most people) to make enough to get by.

But not all poor people are like that, so what about the ones who have jobs with regular full-time hours, or less than full-time? Well, a lot of their time might be spent looking for another job, or some other way to supplement their income, that you, with your good income, don't have to worry about. That's time they can't spend cooking or thinking about how to cook well. And if they can't afford a car? Walking to whatever job they have, which you apparently think would be an unadulterated good for them, probably takes a lot longer than driving would- less time to cook or eat well. And in bad weather it may be impossible, meaning that they have to take public transportation, because that's all they can afford right now, even though it's more expensive that owning a car in the long run- again, less money they can spend on food, and still less time than if they had their own vehicle.

And add to all of that the psychological toll of knowing that you in poverty and exercising the willpower to deal with all of the above problems and others that come with poverty, and it's freakin' hard to find both the time and mental energy to figure out how to eat both healthy and cheap.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#75

Post by rubberband »

tocomment wrote: post #29

Couldn't another part of the problem simply be lack of marketing for these drugs? Everyone is aware there are goto drugs to toenail fungus and restless leg syndrome from all of the commercials. Shouldn't drugs like these that apply to even more people be all over the airwaves?

I suppose it is potentially, but I have to assume that the people in the pharmaceutical industry understand which drugs they should market (and how, and when) to make the most money. To me it seems that "diet drugs" would basically print money from them, but my point is I believe there is a reason for them doing what they are doing, and that if they calculated they would make that much money, you better believe that they would pour truckloads of money into advertising.

Still, it just seems so odd, given the rather... large potential market.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#76

Post by syntheticnature »

tocomment wrote: post #20
spodek wrote: post #5

More relevant questions: - Why don't we stop subsidizing corn so much? - Why don't we teach effective nutrition and cooking in school? - Why don't we teach effective exercise, sports, and fitness in schools? - If we can ban alcohol and tobacco sales to children, why not things like added sugar, hydrogenated oils, corn syrup, etc? - If we can ban alcohol and tobacco advertising to children, why not products with added…

I've been looking for a way to make vegetables like brocoli or green beans palatable. What's your secret?

I think the real question is: how are they unpalatable now?

I ask because taste bud response varies; one common reference is the supertaster-taster-nontaster continuum, which is focused on perception of bitter component found in some vegetables.

If you're a supertaster, you might not be able to do anything to make them completely acceptable to you; they're always going to be a bit over-bitter. Hate to say it, but cheese, butter, and gentle use of honey may be your best bets.

On the other hand, if you're a taster, the suggestions here will help... and if you're a non-taster like me, you might discover that fresher -- and weirder -- produce has a more intense flavor that you enjoy, though you might need to acquire a taste for it.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#77

Post by joshberry »

tocomment wrote: post #20
spodek wrote: post #5

More relevant questions: - Why don't we stop subsidizing corn so much? - Why don't we teach effective nutrition and cooking in school? - Why don't we teach effective exercise, sports, and fitness in schools? - If we can ban alcohol and tobacco sales to children, why not things like added sugar, hydrogenated oils, corn syrup, etc? - If we can ban alcohol and tobacco advertising to children, why not products with added…

I've been looking for a way to make vegetables like brocoli or green beans palatable. What's your secret?

Roasting definitely helps, and I don't worry too much about how much olive oil I coat vegetables with.

For example, I'll roast some cauliflower for 45 minutes, and then I can eat it like that or mash it like potatoes (tastes way better than mashed potatoes to me).

String beans I'll coat with olive oil and chipotle powder and that tastes great.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#78

Post by normloman »

varelse wrote: post #53
normloman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why don't we stop subsidizing corn so much?" Lobbyists. "Why don't we teach effective nutrition and cooking in school?" We do. It's called home economics. "Why don't we teach effective exercise, sports, and fitness in schools?" We do. It's called gym. "If we can ban alcohol and tobacco sales to children, why not things like added sugar, hydrogenated oils, corn syrup, etc?" Go tell a 6 year old they can't have cake o…

"Why don't we teach effective exercise, sports, and fitness in schools?" We do. It's called gym. Um no, and that's part of the problem. In my experience, gym class was a Hunger Games like spectacle for the athletically (but not otherwise) gifted to enjoy their brief decade in the sun at the expense of those who will peak much later in life (but of course, they're more likely to be sedentary in part because of such a…

I'm sorry your gym experience was so terrible. Mine wasn't great either. That said, the poor state of gym now is no reason to eliminate it all together. We need to reform it.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#79

Post by maccard »

numbsafari wrote: post #18
tekacs wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly obviate my foot. The number of issues that would need addressing to make it possible for everyone to eat a healthy diet (hell how do we go about making cheap, convenient, healthy food on such a scale?) vastly exceeds the number involved in coming up with post-hoc remedies. More relevant questions are surely those which enable us to do something about the problem in the foreseeable future (such as diet pills) r…

"how do we go about making cheap, convenient, healthy food on such a scale?" We need people to stop worrying about "casual gaming at scale" and start worrying about "living a good life at scale". It's just that, there's not usually as much profit in the solutions that actually work or matter.

> We need people to stop worrying about "casual gaming at scale" and start worrying about "living a good life at scale".

I'm a healthy male in my 20's, I eat well and exercise regularly. I'd be PISSED if everyone stopped working on games and tried to solve all the eating problems of my friends because they're too lazy to do it themselves, instead of catering to what people who already try to live healthily want to do.

Re: Diet Drugs Work: Why Won’t Doctors Prescribe Them?

#80

Post by JulianMorrison »

normloman wrote: post #64
JulianMorrison wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem very willing to wish away the structural power of money by blaming the middleman. This is rather like blaming maggots for death.

Na, I'm with you on the money thing. Lobbyists are just a symptom of the winner-take-all economic system we've got here. That said, it's probably more realistic to control the symptoms right now than try to reform our entire economy. You could probably answer every question with "People in power use their fortunes to preserve power" and you'd nail it 90% of the time.

I'd say instead that it was a symptom of the money-controls-resources economic system.

Basically, thought experiment: imagine a population where everyone starts with a fixed N dollars. Random-walk each dollar a few iterations and you end up with a bell curve of money distribution. Now start again and instead of random-walking them, apply a probabilistic walk, where having more dollars makes you a proportionately more likely recipient. You end up with a skewed distribution with a few rich controlling most of the resources. Now imagine being a congress-critter in that skewed world. Who are you going to have to cut deals with? And you can make the rich-get-richer rule steeper now, because the dollar-owners are cutting deals to make dollar-taking easier. And now your wealth distribution looks like the real world.

The answer is simply that money itself, the alienable control of resources, is the cause. In a society organized by money, corruption and misrule will result. Any "symptom control" amounts to pumping the distribution flatter - it's a sisyphean task, structurally opposed to the power that money creates, and hence metastable at best.

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