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NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

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Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#201

Post by acqq »

sebkomianos wrote: post #162

I shouldn’t be writing this. Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time. We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Re…

The view presented before the last line is counterproductive on so many levels. There's a nice name for it: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/defeatism Acceptance of defeat without struggle.

The problem with the writing style where only the last line brings the change in mood is that a lot of people don't read everything.

The direct call to action is always a better approach.

Don't make the text full with wrong arguments and end it with "but." Just write the good arguments.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#202

Post by eliasmacpherson »

ewoodrich wrote: post #160
Zigurd wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't the instances of "parallel construction" already uncovered mean that the whole "restricts actions against Americans" thing has been blown wide open? I suspect the answer to whether this was been written into law lies in secret interpretations of secret passages of the PATRIOT Acts, and that our rights have been, in secret, broadly abridged if not suspended.

Simply put, no. Parallel construction is a process by which otherwise inadmissible evidence can be used in court by obtaining it through an alternative lawful method. i.e. DEA trailing a specific car until it leads to a drug dealer based on a tip from the NSA. The NSA charter restricts directly targeting Americans unless related to an international threat. i.e. FISA warrants ("Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act").…

Your argument that everyone who is against it doesn't care about nuances doesn't hold any water.

Your language is curious for someone who claims a nuanced understanding: "otherwise inadmissible evidence can be used in court"[1], "alternative lawful method"[2].

[1] is wrong because the evidence the NSA use for the tip, however legally or illegally it was acquired, is not used in court. Exhonerating evidence they acquired is not seen by the court.

[2] if the initial acquisition is inadmissible because it's illegally acquired then the alternative evidence acquisition is fruit of the poisoned tree, and any cover up probably illegal.

[1] and [2] imply the evidence acquired by the NSA and the DEA are the same evidence, and this is not the case.

The DOJ are investigating "Parallel Construction". If it was obviously legitimate, they would not be.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#203

Post by eliasmacpherson »

diminoten wrote: post #195
bmelton wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that this answer might seem overly terse, but there are a group of unnamed prisoners in Guantanamo Bay sitting there, not getting the benefit of due process that they are obligated. Under the NDAA, the president has the authority to enshrine anyone he wishes, subject to zero oversight, to a similar fate. Under the PATRIOT Act, we've bombed American Citizens suspected of possibly committing a crime in the future…

So no one, then?

They've silenced over 200,000 people with national security letters. Nick Merrill is one example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Merril

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpRp-D5v5NQl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT2fQu50sMs

Brewster Kahle is another from archive.org:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/06/what-...

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#204

Post by fuzzix »

nodata wrote: post #199
downer91 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and the euphamism "Boiling Frogs." The idea being that if you place frogs in a pool of water and raise the water temperature ever so slowly, the frogs will never notice that they are eventually being boiled alive, so they'll relax in the boiling water with complacency, as they are slowly cooked to death.

Not a good comparison. http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp

It's a common idiom with an established meaning. The behaviour of actual frogs is immaterial.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#205

Post by arprocter »

Pengu wrote: post #151
swalkergibson wrote: post #29

I am now numb to these revelations, as I suspect are most of the technology community. The only thing that will make the rest of the general populace wake up is if someone on TV says they are vehemently opposed to it. Someone who has trotted out the, "I have nothing to hide, so I am not worried." I believe the only way this will happen is if Edward Snowden specifically targeted one of those people and created a file…

This is stupid, targeting individuals at 'random' is pointless and won't help anything. There is no way to tell whether or not a Character even holds a specific view that they portray. It's called acting for a reason, and this is why "faking it until you make it" is so popular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KwEDgpSWxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWf2LLaHkM0 All that matters post Snowden Revelations is Game The…

>The fact that he and WikiLeaks both choose to release their documents over time instead of in a single dump gives them the advantage of having or following a script

The downside of this is that the public/media have a short attention span - 'oh look, the 3rd NSA story this week', and then what probably should've been front page material gets hidden away

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#206

Post by furyg3 »

sjtgraham wrote: post #79

> The NSA does not target Americans’ location data by design, but the agency acquires a substantial amount of information on the whereabouts of domestic cellphones “incidentally,” a legal term that connotes a foreseeable but not deliberate result. The implication that Americans being "incidentally" caught in the dragnet is the only aspect that makes this egregious is absolutely fucking disgusting. This is a habit end…

100% spot-on.

The Declaration of Independence says "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This would mean that trespassing on these unalienable rights of 'all men' (citizen, foreigner, or not) would be hypocritical.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#207

Post by etiam »

bwaldrep wrote: post #173
etiam wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of no better or more accessible review of the psychology of evil than "The Lucifer effect" (2007) by Philip Zimbardo, a psychologist who, in spite of a long and illustrious career, probably is still best known for the infamous Stanford prison study. The companion website to the book is still up on http://www.lucifereffect.com/ Zimbardo has stated that he is still pained at the memories of the Stanford prison s…

An alternate view of Zimbardo's prison study: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=3025

That's mildly funny as a quip, but I hope you don't really base your opinion on that strip.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#208

Post by paulhauggis »

lhc- wrote: post #81
marvin wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that, folks, is why we as engineers and hackers have a moral duty to be very selective in the types of work we take on and for whom. Computer yechnology work is still a wild west. Other fields which have similar ethical considerations - medicine, chemistry, engineering - have ethics courses which make it clear to the graduates that their professional decisions have consequences. There is no such standard for co…

While in school for Computer Engineering (2002-2007 or so), I actually had two ethics classes, one specifically for Engineering and one for Information ethics. I dont know how standard that is, but all the engineering disciplines had to take the Engineering one and computer scienc-y students had to take Info ethics.

I graduated with a degree in Computer Science in 1997, and we also had to take an ethics class. However, it was more along the lines of knowingly creating software or hardware that would cause harm. To be honest, the majority of the tests we had were common sense..I didn't even have to even look over the material.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#209

Post by epaga »

downer91 wrote: post #191
notdrunkatall wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a term for the idea that Damon hit upon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

...and the euphamism "Boiling Frogs." The idea being that if you place frogs in a pool of water and raise the water temperature ever so slowly, the frogs will never notice that they are eventually being boiled alive, so they'll relax in the boiling water with complacency, as they are slowly cooked to death.

*euphemism

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#210

Post by gazrogers »

acqq wrote: post #201
sebkomianos wrote: post #162

I shouldn’t be writing this. Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time. We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Re…

The view presented before the last line is counterproductive on so many levels. There's a nice name for it: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/defeatism Acceptance of defeat without struggle. The problem with the writing style where only the last line brings the change in mood is that a lot of people don't read everything. The direct call to action is always a better approach. Don't make the text full with wrong arguments…

That's a bit like complaining that a joke isn't funny because you didn't bother to read/listen all the way to the punchline.
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