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Valve joins the Linux Foundation

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Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#271

Post by jebblue »

gagege wrote: post #138
Aardwolf wrote: post #137

DOSBox and Wine make Linux quite perfect for gaming. Interestingly, for some games, running the Windows version in Wine works better than running a native Linux version they've made of the game. E.g. the native Linux version will complain that some library .so is not the correct version, or that it cannot connect to X, etc...

I appreciate and use Wine quite a bit, but it's far from perfect. A lot of things just plain crash from the get go. Also, I wish that Steam on Linux would attempt to install and run Windows games via Wine. If I want to play, for instance, Spelunky, I need to close Linux Steam (can't log in in multiple clients, last time I checked) and open Windows Steam in Wine. Maybe there's a way to get Wine games to run in Linux S…

>> I appreciate and use Wine quite a bit, but it's far from perfect. A lot of things just plain crash from the get go.

This hasn't been my experience. Wine works great, Netflix runs very good on Ubuntu because of Wine. I've played several Windows games on Linux like Unreal which ran better on Linux under Wine that on Windows.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#272

Post by jebblue »

venomsnake wrote: post #183
adamors wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, you've gotta love these armchair Linux critics man.

Indeed, call a person that sincerely tries for the last 3 months to move to Linux as a daily driver armchair critic. I could live with slightly wooden DE, I could live with the fact that my speakers are buzzing while there are phones connected. The only real dealbreaker is lack of decent file search in Linux. I want something that delivers the speed of search of Everything and has realtime update. No luck so far.

My wife only needed one night to switch to Linux.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#273

Post by jebblue »

cLeEOGPw wrote: post #71
Yuioup wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video, sound, competing standards (which will hinder adoption), antiquated X11. Also when a full-screen X11 overlay (like a game) freezes then the whole desktop freezes (CTRL+ALT+F1 doesn't help). A Linux enthousiast will forgive these mistakes and find a way around them but Linux noobs wouldn't know what to do.

Even if they would know what to do, it would still be something you wouldn't have to do on Windows, so anyone who is agnostic to what OS he is using and chooses based on practical criteria and not ideology or philosophy, will most often choose Windows over Linux. Linux experience just isn't there (would like to add "yet", but I don't see it even moving in that direction). I said this before and I'm gonna say again -…

>> Linux forces user to learn about OS and computer in general, which is not needed for most of people.

My wife switched in one summer night in 2007, she hasn't looked back, she's a casual user, her laptop came from Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed. I guarantee you, she is the typical, non-techie user.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#274

Post by jebblue »

Yuioup wrote: post #30
ds_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's broken about it?

Video, sound, competing standards (which will hinder adoption), antiquated X11. Also when a full-screen X11 overlay (like a game) freezes then the whole desktop freezes (CTRL+ALT+F1 doesn't help). A Linux enthousiast will forgive these mistakes and find a way around them but Linux noobs wouldn't know what to do.

Your data seems like, off. Ctrl+Alt+F1 does indeed give you a nice way to kill the game. On Windows, you have to hit power reset and hope you don't lose anything important.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#275

Post by reustle »

ics wrote: post #244
stormbrew wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro video users have jumped ship from Macs? To what?

Could be referring to the micro-exodus of users after Final Cut X came out, but then of all my friends in film and video none have switched from Mac since then, only to...

I'd love to do most of my amateur video editing on my powerful ubuntu desktop instead of my macbook air. Is there a good community around any particular video studio project for linux?

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#276

Post by Mikeb85 »

shinratdr wrote: post #256
ekianjo wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it seems that some indie developers are already supporting Linux more often than OSX. I have seen on Steam several titles where the title was multi-platform, but multi as in Windows/Linux, not Windows/Mac/Linux. Interesting trend. I would be very interested to hear about sales numbers on Steam Linux from developers or publishers, and see if the time they spend converting their game is worth it as this stage,…

Flipping through the Linux games section on Steam (which is 11 pages comprising 256 titles) I see exactly nine titles that support Linux but don't support OS X. Subtracting those nine from the total Linux games leaves 247 titles. Subtract those from the Mac game total of 601 titles, and you're left with 354 titles that appear on OS X but not on Linux. That arguably constitutes a trend. Not only that, but looking at t…

All that realistically matters is what came out on Linux in the last 3 months, and what's upcoming on Linux.

The fact that there's going to be Linux powered Steam consoles coming out soon trumps anything that has happened up until now...

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#277

Post by yapcguy »

stormbrew wrote: post #239
yapcguy wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers (should) prefer using Linux over OS X. Mac gaming languishes like it always has. Pro video users have jumped shipped (still waiting for the new Mac Pro sometime this month, 18 months after Tim Cook teased folks after WWDC, years after any serious update) What future OS X?!

Pro video users have jumped ship from Macs? To what?

Some of my film friends moved to Avid on Windows.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#278

Post by phaemon »

Yuioup wrote: post #193
phaemon wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've just given me a fact I'm already well aware of ("Wayland is being developed...") and then restated that X11 is antiquated, but you've never given me a reason why you think that. Do you actually know, or are you just repeating something you read somewhere but didn't really understand?

Okay fair enough. No I don't know. It's just what I heard. From what I have understood in the limited knowledge I have of X11, it seems to have no true full screen support, unnecessary layering due to it's legacy client-server architecture and ugly hacks. Clearly you're passionate about X11 and I would like to hear why it is not antiquated.

Well, it's difficult to explain why something isn't antiquated, but on the points you raised:

1. You misunderstood the full-screen thing. X11 does have proper full screen. The trouble is that it's a bit too proper: the full screen app receives all the keyboard instructions, so how do you switch to a different app? The app needs to release some keys to you, or you need to exit or kill it. This isn't so good for games where you might have a chat program running in the background.

2. The client-server architecture is not really relevant since it uses sockets when it's on localhost.

3. Ugly hacks? Anything more specific?

X11 is a modular architecture and the very fact it's still in use suggests it's an effective one. Look at the difficulty Microsoft had getting compositing working (XP -> Vista), but it was added to X11 without having to invent a brand new windowing system.

I'm not quite as passionate about X11 as you might think. It's not so long ago that I was arguing that I'm excited to see what Wayland and Mir can produce. But it's not because X11 is bad, it's because I think things can be even better.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#279

Post by gizzlon »

archagon wrote: post #200
adamors wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with gaming laptops, it's just that both their performance and the experience they provide pales in comparison to a PC. (A PC that costs less, mind you.) I mean, you cannot realistically say that you can have an immersive experience on a 15 inch, 1600x900 monitor when it comes to graphically intensive games. Also, with CPU bound games like Arma overclocking can result in a difference of 15-20 fp…

This is a rather shortsighted view. Integrated graphics are rapidly catching up to desktop cards. The built-in Iris is enough to play games like TF2 with high settings, while the 15" Macbook Pro's 750M is half as powerful as my desktop AMD 6850! Furthermore, desktop PCs are getting ousted by laptops, to the point where I barely know anyone with a desktop anymore. In my view, PC gaming will have to adapt to this new e…

The built-in Iris is enough to play games like TF2 with high settings,

TF2 is 5 years old, and the engine is even older..

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#280

Post by derefr »

aclevernickname wrote: post #197
reubenmorais wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. Do you have a source for this?

In lieu of a source, how's about you try to disprove it using data that shows that people prefer to buy Alienware (or other branded) gaming rigs over building their own PC's?

Why are you even presuming a "gaming rig?" I have a large Steam library... on Windows, in Boot Camp, on my MacBook Pro. Personally, I just don't see the appeal of max-settings graphics, so I'm not really compelled to "upgrade" to anything more powerful, no matter how many games I play. (Then again, I also don't see the big deal about movies over-and-above theatre/opera.)
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