Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity? • Hacker News Board

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#91

Post by sebkomianos » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

taspeotis wrote: post #11

forgotAgain wrote: post #3

A lot of time has been spent by developers trying to get points. There is a cost to that. The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation. If there was no StackOverflow the vendors would have to do better. I'm thinking of msdn as an example since a lot of the Stack questions are MS technology based. MS is far from alone though. Much of the money saved has gone to vendors. Even given those po…

The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation ... I'm thinking of msdn as an example The number of questions on SO that can be answered by RTFM is quite remarkable. I think that points to a lot of the documentation being just fine. The last bug of my own I spent any significant of time on was answerable by RTFM [1]. There are plenty of PHP+MySQL questions that appear where the OP is clearl…

Not everyone learns from manuals though.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#92

Post by code_duck » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

arthur_debert wrote: post #12

code_duck wrote: post #6

It is the internet and www in general that enables people to be connected and share ideas. There's no reason to credit specific sites like Facebook or eBay with connecting people, because someone else would have done it (possibly better) if they had not.

It is language and written language that enables people to be connected and share ideas. There's no reason to credit specific networks like www or the internet with connecting people, because someone else would have done it (possibly better) if they had not.

People credit facebook with connection people, when AOL did the same thing 10 years ago and someone else will be providing software for that in 10 years. People credit stack overflow with programmers answering each others questions, while Usenet did that 10 years ago and someone else will be helping with that 10 years from now.

Meanwhile, language has been around for thousands of years and is not quite comparable.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#93

Post by tjbiddle » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:10 AM UTC

chavesn wrote: post #66

taspeotis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation ... I'm thinking of msdn as an example The number of questions on SO that can be answered by RTFM is quite remarkable. I think that points to a lot of the documentation being just fine. The last bug of my own I spent any significant of time on was answerable by RTFM [1]. There are plenty of PHP+MySQL questions that appear where the OP is clearl…

Why do people assume that RTFM does not have a cost? In fact, it's probably higher than searching SO through Google. This is why I'm hugely in favor of even basic questions getting answers on SO.

Agreed - Especially when I'm working on some technology where I don't need/want to learn it completely and just can't spare the time, but just need to know a small bit of information to fix some legacy item, or something similar. SO is invaluable there - but I do hate when I'm "that guy".

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#94

Post by zxcvvcxz » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:14 AM UTC

taspeotis wrote: post #11

forgotAgain wrote: post #3

A lot of time has been spent by developers trying to get points. There is a cost to that. The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation. If there was no StackOverflow the vendors would have to do better. I'm thinking of msdn as an example since a lot of the Stack questions are MS technology based. MS is far from alone though. Much of the money saved has gone to vendors. Even given those po…

The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation ... I'm thinking of msdn as an example The number of questions on SO that can be answered by RTFM is quite remarkable. I think that points to a lot of the documentation being just fine. The last bug of my own I spent any significant of time on was answerable by RTFM [1]. There are plenty of PHP+MySQL questions that appear where the OP is clearl…

> The number of questions on SO that can be answered by RTFM is quite remarkable. I think that points to a lot of the documentation being just fine.

Actually that must point to the opposite: that manuals are not information resources that are easily consumable, and hence a new service (Stackoverflow and co.) needed to be developed to "disrupt" this.

The more questions the better IMO, it's just more of a wealth of data to search through and serve to people.

I wish there were better ways of asking more general questions that one just has no idea though (e.g. "How can I send SMS messages from a web site?" Random example of which I have no clue). These are more open-ended, but provide a ton of value. At the very least, they make googling for such things that much easier and direct.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#95

Post by nathan_long » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:14 AM UTC

taspeotis wrote: post #11

forgotAgain wrote: post #3

A lot of time has been spent by developers trying to get points. There is a cost to that. The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation. If there was no StackOverflow the vendors would have to do better. I'm thinking of msdn as an example since a lot of the Stack questions are MS technology based. MS is far from alone though. Much of the money saved has gone to vendors. Even given those po…

The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation ... I'm thinking of msdn as an example The number of questions on SO that can be answered by RTFM is quite remarkable. I think that points to a lot of the documentation being just fine. The last bug of my own I spent any significant of time on was answerable by RTFM [1]. There are plenty of PHP+MySQL questions that appear where the OP is clearl…

If you're stringing together a Unix pipe command, TFM might be for, say, awk. Would you rather stop what you're thinking about for 10 minutes and shave that yak, or get a quick answer and move on?

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#96

Post by Stratoscope » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:18 AM UTC

lukev wrote: post #87

I believe it. And that's not even counting looking up answers or getting your questions answered. When I am truly stumped, I immediately start drafting a comprehensive SO question. Nine times out of ten, clearly enunciating the problem leads me directly to the answer and I never even post it.

If you're feeling generous, go ahead and post the question anyway, along with the answer you found. That's very much encouraged, and very helpful to people searching for answers later.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#97

Post by micmcg » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:20 AM UTC

lukev wrote: post #87

I believe it. And that's not even counting looking up answers or getting your questions answered. When I am truly stumped, I immediately start drafting a comprehensive SO question. Nine times out of ten, clearly enunciating the problem leads me directly to the answer and I never even post it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#98

Post by startuup » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:23 AM UTC

jc4p wrote: post #84

startuup wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a great start but there are other ideas too. Why isn't SE as useful for people in other professions, like product managers or data scientists or marketers who are also looking for answers to their work problems? The key is that just replicating the site is not the answer, you need to really focus on community dev and getting the thought leaders from those professionals involved. Lastly, along with the 'feed' im…

I actually originally had something related in my post but removed it: I won't personally consider the site I work on a success unless my mom uses it. She's a physics PhD and she once in a while stumbles onto physics.SE when searching online but she doesn't actually use the site. I think SO and Server Fault are the size they are because they have an intrinsic advantage over our other sites. People in the target audie…

I can understand that being an absolute answers to questions makes sense for some of the technical fields where the answers are black and white. However, as you start branching out to other forms of questions, like your mom's who is a PHD in physics, sometimes the answers are not absolute, but its the discussion around them that unearths something really powerful. So, why not test that out in one of your websites? Whats the worse that can happen? You can change it back.

To your initial issue, yes reaching out to the upcoming thought leaders could be great. I know of a few friends in fitness industry who send me thoughts via email. But don't discount the ability for you to get the top 1% thought leaders. Have you tried it? You would be surprised by how many of them actually want to show their leadership and 'help' others.

BTW Thanks for reading my answer. I usually am a silent browser of HN and felt compelled to answer since I have been thinking about this a lot. Would be happy to jump on skype to chat further.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#99

Post by halter73 » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:29 AM UTC

I have written 85 SO answers, yet I have never posted a question of my own on SO. Even so, I think SO has made me more productive, and that's counting all my time answering questions as wasted when in reality my time spent answering questions was certainly not completely wasted.

My primary reason for believing that SO has made a net positive impact on my productivity is that about half the time I google some programming problem, I end up on SO. I'm fortunate that most of my questions (or questions similar enough) have already been asked on SO.

I suspect I've read thousands if not tens of thousands of SO answers, and most of those answers were far more helpful than what I was able to find elsewhere.

I've often wondered why I've never asked a question myself. I think part of it is that I like searching/tinkering to find answers, and I hate waiting. I know it's not the best explanation because I know how quickly some SO questions can be answered.

I guess I should just be thankful there are plenty of other programmers more than willing to post SO questions.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#100

Post by dreamdu5t » Thu, Dec 05, 2013, 3:34 AM UTC

Pointless speculation. Value is not the same thing as a nominal price. Individuals value things for their use in accomplishing certain ends. The notion of aggregate value derived by summing arbitrary numbers is absurd and meaningless.

If I define taking a piss as saving me $10/hour in productivity, then I can arrive at a number of $2,847,000 saved by me urinating an average of 3 times a day throughout my lifetime. That says nothing about productivity and clearly my piss isn't worth $2,847,000.