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Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

skeptics.stackexchange.com

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Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#81

A lot of time has been spent by developers trying to get points. There is a cost to that. The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation. If there was no StackOverflow the vendors would have to do better. I'm thinking of msdn as an example since a lot of the Stack questions are MS technology based. MS is far from alone though. Much of the money saved has gone to vendors. Even given those po…

> If there was no StackOverflow the vendors would have to do better. Documentation quality had been declining for many years before SO -- I think its more accurate to say that if vendors were doing better, there would be no (or less interest in) StackOverflow than the other way around.

Although the problem I've been finding recently with SO vs Apple docs (mainly since switching from developing sdks to apps) is a lot of the higher level stuff seems to get changed more frequently, so a lot of SO answers are out of date.

Edit: Somehow this reply ended up with a different parent than I intended...

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site has enabled software vendors to slack off on their documentation ... I'm thinking of msdn as an example The number of questions on SO that can be answered by RTFM is quite remarkable. I think that points to a lot of the documentation being just fine. The last bug of my own I spent any significant of time on was answerable by RTFM [1]. There are plenty of PHP+MySQL questions that appear where the OP is clearl…

StackOverflow is just the manual in an easily searchable form. Lots of times I'm not even sure of what to even look up and that's when I post to StackOverflow. The next time someone else tries to do something similar, Google will have found it in StackOverflow and it will be easily found.

Easily searchable and constantly updated form.

And free of vendor BS, too.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#83
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stackexchange.com is bigger than stackoverflow.com. Source: https://www.quantcast.com/stackexchange.com?country=US https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com?country=US

That's good but SE is a federation of sites, so it's an unfair comparison. From the start I've always thought that the biggest danger to SO/SE wasn't failure, you guys are smart enough to see and recover from outright failure. Instead it's reaching a level of success far below what you're capable of. It seems to me that SO/SE spent a lot of work innovating in the early days but once they found their comfort zone they…

I'm not totally sure about that, if for the sole reason that SO/SE has such a huge volume of answered questions already. Unless they make those answers harder to access, I think there will always be a contingent of people who'll need them.

However, I do hope that we get an even better discussion platform than the ones we have now. I really look forward to even cooler products in the future.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#84
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily a lot of us are on the same page as you :) One of the things I consider a main detriment of our current product is that for the vast majority of users it's built to be transactional. Search, land on SO, read, go back to work. On our currently in development mobile apps we're trying out something different, for the first time at scale we're pushing content to users rather than having them search for it as the…

Thats a great start but there are other ideas too. Why isn't SE as useful for people in other professions, like product managers or data scientists or marketers who are also looking for answers to their work problems? The key is that just replicating the site is not the answer, you need to really focus on community dev and getting the thought leaders from those professionals involved. Lastly, along with the 'feed' im…

I actually originally had something related in my post but removed it: I won't personally consider the site I work on a success unless my mom uses it. She's a physics PhD and she once in a while stumbles onto physics.SE when searching online but she doesn't actually use the site.

I think SO and Server Fault are the size they are because they have an intrinsic advantage over our other sites. People in the target audience work and live in the same tech ecosystem as a website, with something like physics that's an initial burden.

SE itself also has a high barrier to entry. Every one of our sites has it's own rules and definition of what type of content is acceptable. This is for a very good reason, seeking out absolute answers to questions. Most other websites on the internet live to foster discussion, but we're not a forum.

Making stack exchange a common name (in more than our sizable niche) is one of our company goals, but I don't really know what we can do to get past the initial issue I mentioned and reducing the second would hurt our product.

It's quite an interesting idea to be more proactive about bringing thought leaders to out lesser known sites, I don't know if we could do it just directly since most thought leaders are very busy people who already have a dozen places people ask them questions but it's something to think about. We already consider expertise of contributors in Area 51, our incubator for new website ideas.

Perhaps while we may not be able to get the top 1% of thought leaders onto our websites without giving them a really hard question to answer (my mom loves difficult questions, god knows how many times she used to run into my room and say she solved a question I asked her in passing days prior) but it might be possible to bring in up-and-coming thought leaders. A lot of my friends from the health and fitness industry (were I used to live) might want to use our Physical Fitness Stack Exchange site to foster their own personal brand.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#85
Nothing can beat a quick search and hitting the direct answer on even very basic question.

SO saves time and nerves of countless newbies, myself included from RTFM-ing through each vendor's convoluted ways of presenting messy instructions or being abused on IRC by OP's :)

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#86

I feel like StackOverflow is a blade that cuts both ways. I find it's most useful for troubleshooting really cryptic/obscure error messages that I would undoubtably blow through huge amounts of time trying to solve on my own; those are the type of problems I'm not sure I would ever get through without help from wizardly members of community. But for other answers, to the kind of lazy questions that save me the moment…

StackOverflow has been the opposite for me. I am someone who reads the man pages and does a lot of experimentation before turning to a Q&A site, I fully document what happened, the expected result, and the deviations between the two, and my hypotheses on why it happened, then post. As a result something like 85% of my questions go unanswered or are eventually answered by myself. I have stopped answering my own questi…

> I am someone who reads the man pages and does a lot of experimentation before turning to a Q&A site

I feel similarly. I'm uncomfortable asking for help on stackoverflow, a mailing list or IRC if I haven't tried everything I could think of to work something out. I always have this[1] in mind when I do end up writing a question. I almost think it should be required reading.

[1]: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#87
I believe it. And that's not even counting looking up answers or getting your questions answered.

When I am truly stumped, I immediately start drafting a comprehensive SO question. Nine times out of ten, clearly enunciating the problem leads me directly to the answer and I never even post it.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#88
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

StackOverflow is just the manual in an easily searchable form. Lots of times I'm not even sure of what to even look up and that's when I post to StackOverflow. The next time someone else tries to do something similar, Google will have found it in StackOverflow and it will be easily found.

Easily searchable and constantly updated form. And free of vendor BS, too.

Also has only the information people are actually interested in.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#89
It's probably saved my sanity more than it's saved (or made) me money.

If not for SO I probably would have had a lot of 12-hour days of frustration that wound up only being 8-hour days of frustration.

Which is good, like life-improvingly good, because project timelines and estimates don't often budget for the kinds of bizarro problems that sometimes only have solutions on Stack Overflow.

Re: Has StackOverflow saved billions of dollars in programmer productivity?

#90
post #64
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on earth is bad about using StackOverflow? You're expected to google around to find solutions anyway, if anything I would think much less of the programmer who tried to avoid it. It's stupid pride when it's such a valuable resource.

I agree with you, but several people I have encountered don't feel this way. For instance I had someone try to explain how using HAML made their developers more valuable because of all the keystrokes they were saving. When you're counting keystrokes as a developer productivity metric I can only wonder how toxic the work environment becomes when you need to stop to look at documentation yet alone use Google or SO.

Maybe that person's team is more productive with Haml not simply because of the small amount of time that's saved by less typing, but because of the huge amount of time that's saved by not needing to replace developers who are institutionalized or commit suicide as a result of being forced to type HTML tags like it's still 2005[1].

[1] The year before Haml was introduced.

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