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Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

isios7jailbrokenyet.com

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Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#91

Post by derefr »

rsynnott wrote: post #74
mortenjorck wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there’s still about zero percent chance of it happening in the near term, I have to think that long-term, Apple will port Gatekeeper to iOS. It’s a near-ideal balance of security on OS X: Non-technical users can stay in the walled garden of the Mac App Store, semi-technical users can allow signed binaries, and power users can run whatever they want. I work in the mobile healthcare space, and right now, we’re st…

> Non-technical users can stay in the walled garden of the Mac App Store, semi-technical users can allow signed binaries, and power users can run whatever they want. As the signed binary and app store only is the default, it's unlikely that non-technical users will actually change it.

To put it another way, to have the knowledge required to change the default, the non-technical user would have to become a semi-technical user.

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#92

Post by Segmentation »

phaer wrote: post #5

Serious question: Why bother? Why is there such an interest in using a very closed system in a way the vendor does not support if there are (more) open alternatives? Is it because you are forced to use an iPhone by external factors, like your employer? Are there critical features missing from Android and all the others? Is it just your personal preference? I really don't mean to offend anyone, it's just that I percei…

I like the iOS ecosystem, as well the OS X ecosystem. I like Mac products. I have a Macbook Pro. I do all sorts of hacks on it, because OS X is not locked down. I don't see why I can't do the same on iOS. I don't want to use Android or others.

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#93

Post by cmaury »

saurik wrote: post #81

The problem I have with this website is that it attempts to change the dynamics from one of "people who do things that are fun to make devices more open" to one of "people who do things to win cash prizes". Meanwhile, it changes the dynamics in the minds of the people contributing: normally, people contribute after the fact to the teams that built something that they found of value; under the model of this website, p…

You're absolutely right that changing motivations from intrinsic to an extrinsic can have negative affects. I'm pretty sure there is a study that people paid a dollar to complete a crossword or some other word puzzle did worse than people who were asked to do it for no pay.

However, I think there are cases where extrinsic motivation can be beneficial. This campaign provides a good example.

Those with the programming skills necessary to jailbreak the iPhone may not be as intrinsically motivated to do so as the OS matures, and so they stop dedicated time. But these engineers are by no means the only people who might benefit from jailbreaking.

The disabled community is one such group. They, in general, may not have the skills necessary to write the software necessary to jailbreak their devices, but could benefit greatly if such software existed. Offering a bounty is a way for them to cross that skill gap.

These campaigns aren't meant for the benefit of software developers. They are for the benefit of those who have great ideas, but lack the skills to fulfill them.

Extrinsic motivation may not be the ideal condition, but that does not mean it is something that should be avoided.

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#94

Post by cmaury »

saurik wrote: post #81

The problem I have with this website is that it attempts to change the dynamics from one of "people who do things that are fun to make devices more open" to one of "people who do things to win cash prizes". Meanwhile, it changes the dynamics in the minds of the people contributing: normally, people contribute after the fact to the teams that built something that they found of value; under the model of this website, p…

I'd also add that creating a cash incentive enables you to encourage an open sourced jailbreak, which is doubly important in this case since given all the opportunities for a jailbreak to introduce malicious code

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#95

Post by tajddin »

junto wrote: post #85
RandallBrown wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 years ago what was the only decent tablet option? The iPad. Apple's solution for running business apps and distributing them outside the app store is actually not that bad.

This is exactly my problem. I have an iPad 2. I know that if I move off iOS5 I have to move to iOS7, which really wasn't designed with the iPad 2 in mind. I'm now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Stay where I am and many apps (like Spotify which I pay for) no longer work, or upgrade to iOS7 and know that the iPad 2 just isn't powerful to run it in the same way in runs iOS5 (for which it was designed for). I'm d…

I'd tend to disagree with your assessment of iOS' performance on the iPad 2. I have an iPad Air and an iPad 2 and quite frankly the iPad 2 crashes less and runs more consistently on iOS 7, as opposed to my Air. It feels as though iOS 7 wasn't ready for the Air, but it has been improving with each update.

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#96

Post by saurik »

cmaury wrote: post #93
saurik wrote: post #81

The problem I have with this website is that it attempts to change the dynamics from one of "people who do things that are fun to make devices more open" to one of "people who do things to win cash prizes". Meanwhile, it changes the dynamics in the minds of the people contributing: normally, people contribute after the fact to the teams that built something that they found of value; under the model of this website, p…

You're absolutely right that changing motivations from intrinsic to an extrinsic can have negative affects. I'm pretty sure there is a study that people paid a dollar to complete a crossword or some other word puzzle did worse than people who were asked to do it for no pay. However, I think there are cases where extrinsic motivation can be beneficial. This campaign provides a good example. Those with the programming…

To the extent to which I believe these are interesting arguments to have, I think that this should be discussed only after the intrinsic motivation has failed; as it stands, it is my understanding that a jailbreak is coming from evad3rs in the near future: planetbeing has already stated that they have what they need, and they are just working on integration and support for all devices (which is a lot of busywork). As for getting paid, they actually do get a good number of after-the-fact donations, but that is a drastically different kind of expectation from the users giving the donations, as well as a drastically different kind of mentality that goes behind the developer (as even if all you cared about was money, you aren't shopping for large sums ahead-of-time).

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#97

Post by SmileyKeith »

psychometry wrote: post #14
SmileyKeith wrote: post #3

Personally I've found the reasons to jailbreak have decreased more and more over time. A perfect example for me is Control Center replacing what I used SBSettings for.

That's true, but it really only takes one missing feature or annoyance to make Jailbreaking a consideration. Case in point: When I plug my iPhone 5 into my car's USB port, the Music app's display changes to an "Accessory Connected" splash screen. I can only control my music through my car's awful dashboard interface. Jailbreaking allows me to disable that splash screen. Other things like 5 column springboard/dock, Fa…

That car compatibility stuff is definitely something that needs to dealt with. The fact that it entirely takes over your phone is entirely unacceptable.

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#98

Post by starkness »

saurik wrote: post #96
cmaury wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right that changing motivations from intrinsic to an extrinsic can have negative affects. I'm pretty sure there is a study that people paid a dollar to complete a crossword or some other word puzzle did worse than people who were asked to do it for no pay. However, I think there are cases where extrinsic motivation can be beneficial. This campaign provides a good example. Those with the programming…

To the extent to which I believe these are interesting arguments to have, I think that this should be discussed only after the intrinsic motivation has failed; as it stands, it is my understanding that a jailbreak is coming from evad3rs in the near future: planetbeing has already stated that they have what they need, and they are just working on integration and support for all devices (which is a lot of busywork). As…

To our knowledge, no one was working on an open source jailbreak, and given that the site I'm building is designed to incentivize things like free and open source software, this was a huge component. I've also been told there are a good number of people that have jailbreaks, and it's possible that they might be motivated to release it as FOSS if enough funds are raised.

And it's not like anything is keeping evad3rs from getting donations if they release a closed source jailbreak, or even if they or anyone else releases a FOSS one and claims the prize (in fact with other related campaigns, lots of donations came in after the fact).

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#99

Post by starkness »

saurik wrote: post #90
saurik wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Some context for others: when I first was responding to the idea of this bounty program, it was to someone else who had previously been considering working with Elizabeth; I was contacted in a kind of after-the-fact/"FYI" style. This was when the only real information was "bounty for iOS 7 jailbreak", without most of the extra restrictions that are now in place on the program, such as "open source". At the time, it…

[continuing this comment from the earlier part] "Finally" (in the aforementioned second point), your e-mail makes the argument for the jailbreak tool being open source. You feel like this "could open the doors to greater community contribution, encouraging larger groups of people to work together to solve the problems more quickly". The argument makes sense: if jailbreaking were secretive and closed (which is a bulle…

You're missing the point here—we're grateful that people in the jailbreak community release things as FOSS, but the majority of jailbreaks as you yourself mention are not FOSS themselves, which is part of what motivated Chris, who proposed the prize, and myself.

It seems to me that that opensn0w campaign may have been fake (there are a lot of those on IndieGoGo).

And to be clear, in talking to friends in the security space, the auditing the code aspect was a huge concern, so I'm glad we can at least agree on something. :)

We're also planning on helping to fund many open hardware projects, and I'll actually be speaking at the SF Hardware Startup meetup tonight to solicit ideas from the community.

Re: Is iOS7 jailbroken yet?

#100

Post by saurik »

starkness wrote: post #99
saurik wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[continuing this comment from the earlier part] "Finally" (in the aforementioned second point), your e-mail makes the argument for the jailbreak tool being open source. You feel like this "could open the doors to greater community contribution, encouraging larger groups of people to work together to solve the problems more quickly". The argument makes sense: if jailbreaking were secretive and closed (which is a bulle…

You're missing the point here—we're grateful that people in the jailbreak community release things as FOSS, but the majority of jailbreaks as you yourself mention are not FOSS themselves, which is part of what motivated Chris, who proposed the prize, and myself. It seems to me that that opensn0w campaign may have been fake (there are a lot of those on IndieGoGo). And to be clear, in talking to friends in the security…

> You're missing the point here—we're grateful that people in the jailbreak community release things as FOSS, but the majority of jailbreaks as you yourself mention are not FOSS themselves, which is part of what motivated Chris, who proposed the prize, and myself.

In other places you've stated the reason he wanted this prize was to get software on his iPhone so he could help with some accessibility issues. This is an incentive that aligns with long-term open hardware, not short term open software. You can't have it both ways. If you are really dropping all of the incentive arguments I'm making and want to concentrate on open source, that's fine: but let's get our stories straight.

> It seems to me that that opensn0w campaign may have been fake (there are a lot of those on IndieGoGo).

I just contacted the developer of opensn0w: no, that was not fake, it just didn't take off. I personally can assert to you that opensn0w (which many people are using right now) is not itself a fake (and I'm one of the people who generally are asked to determine this ;P).

> And to be clear, in talking to friends in the security space, the auditing the code aspect was a huge concern, so I'm glad we can at least agree on something. :)

I talked about auditing changes, not auditing code, and I even explicitly stated that the code was not in any way a concern to someone who really knows what they are doing, so no: we don't really agree on this :/. I have on many occasions, in articles and talks, made the argument that open source is overrated, and that what really matters is open hardware: that in addition to the gap between source code and machine code decreasing over time due to better analysis tools and frameworks, that as long as hardware is capable of being closed off it doesn't matter how much of the code is open > We're also planning on helping to fund many open hardware projects, and I'll actually be speaking at the SF Hardware Startup meetup tonight to solicit ideas from the community.

FWIW, having third-parties construct open hardware doesn't really help the cause of forcing large companies who make closed hardware to provide means of opening it; that said, I do appreciate that you have future goals, but it may have been more useful to start with them.

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