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NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

washingtonpost.com

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Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#21

Post by theg2 »

contingencies wrote: post #18
angersock wrote: post #3

From the article: NSA Director Keith Alexander disclosed in Senate testimony in October that the NSA had run a pilot project in 2010 and 2011 to collect “samples” of U.S. cellphone location data. The data collected were never available for intelligence analysis purposes, and the project was discontinued because it had no “operational value,” he said. Alexander allowed that a broader collection of such data “may be so…

Did anyone else read that and think of that scene in Enemy of the State ? It's eerily equivalent. "Treadstone! Ahh yes, Treadstone. Treadstone was a pilot project to . It's all but decomissioned at this point."

Treadstone is from The Bourne Identity isn't it?

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#22

Post by olefoo »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So the deal modern man was presented with was this: we'll give you instant global communication for pennies, but in return governments and corporations will closely monitor everyone on the planet: where they are, who they call, how long the call is, their texts, messages, and other communications -- basically their thoughts. We'll record this forever to use as we choose. Trust us. As a global population, we seem to h…

Yes; but it's equivalent to taking the Red Pill. Beforehand, you live in one of the most powerful and richest countries that ever was, a beacon of hope and freedom to the rest of the world. Afterwards you live in a country in which the government seems increasingly disconnected from human needs, sends robot assassins to bomb civilians half a world away and watches everyone with a myopically panoptic and punitive gaze.

Oh, and your closest allies will be marginalized, smelly and opinionated; and on the lam.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#23

Post by drcube »

swalsh wrote: post #4

Meta topic, but it seems kind of rude to link to the print page. The washington post is already a very readable site, If i don't want ads, i'll use adblock.

If you don't want people to view something on the public web, don't post it there.

This page design is infinitely better than the other one, also linked on the HN front page. Seems like you get a choice. Hooray for freedom!

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#24

Post by ParkerK »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #8
judk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps does this. The only difference is that Google informs you before you turn on location services.

And that Google isn't limited by the Constitution in the ways that the Federal government supposedly is.

>And that Google isn't limited by the Constitution

I'm pretty sure it is...

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#26

Post by res0nat0r »

angersock wrote: post #3

From the article: NSA Director Keith Alexander disclosed in Senate testimony in October that the NSA had run a pilot project in 2010 and 2011 to collect “samples” of U.S. cellphone location data. The data collected were never available for intelligence analysis purposes, and the project was discontinued because it had no “operational value,” he said. Alexander allowed that a broader collection of such data “may be so…

FTA: The NSA does not target Americans’ location data by design, but the agency acquires a substantial amount of information on the whereabouts of domestic cellphones “incidentally,” a legal term that connotes a foreseeable but not deliberate result.

So the US focused program was cancelled, but the overseas program is still in play, exactly within their mandate.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#27

Post by nostromo »

judk wrote: post #6
angersock wrote: post #3

From the article: NSA Director Keith Alexander disclosed in Senate testimony in October that the NSA had run a pilot project in 2010 and 2011 to collect “samples” of U.S. cellphone location data. The data collected were never available for intelligence analysis purposes, and the project was discontinued because it had no “operational value,” he said. Alexander allowed that a broader collection of such data “may be so…

Google Maps does this. The only difference is that Google informs you before you turn on location services.

It's not the only difference.

Other differences that come to mind: Google has yet to kill people with drones or send people to torture prisons in Egypt.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#28

Post by sukuriant »

lukev wrote: post #12
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So the deal modern man was presented with was this: we'll give you instant global communication for pennies, but in return governments and corporations will closely monitor everyone on the planet: where they are, who they call, how long the call is, their texts, messages, and other communications -- basically their thoughts. We'll record this forever to use as we choose. Trust us. As a global population, we seem to h…

Sure you can! Join the 60% of the world's population that _don't use the internet at all_. Or the 20% of the population of the _US_ that don't use the internet. You can even still use a cell phone, if you want - just buy a prepaid mobile with cash. And aside from awkwardness with your friends, you might even find such a life quite livable. You'll experience no material hardship.

Citation needed on the 20% of the population of the US that doesn't use the internet. Is there even 20% of the US population outside of 100 miles from the shore?

Also, you can't use a cellphone without them knowing who you are with high certainty. It only takes 3 points of location data to identify a person the vast majority of the time[1]. Using a cell phone that you paid for with cash is insufficient.

[1] http://www.livescience.com/28353-anonymous-phone-data-not-an...

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#29

Post by swalkergibson »

I am now numb to these revelations, as I suspect are most of the technology community. The only thing that will make the rest of the general populace wake up is if someone on TV says they are vehemently opposed to it. Someone who has trotted out the, "I have nothing to hide, so I am not worried." I believe the only way this will happen is if Edward Snowden specifically targeted one of those people and created a file of some seriously embarrassing (or, better yet, incriminating) private business that will be released. I seriously hope that he has verifiable proof that Glenn Beck is having cocaine-fueled sex parties with Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Joe Liebermann, Diane Feinstein and the corpse of Strom Thurmond.

That, or something to keep football from being televised on Sunday.

Please, Edward. Tell me there is something up your sleeve that will get people to realize that this is actually a really fucking big thing and that it needs to stop right away.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#30

Post by daveid »

tokipin wrote: post #15
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So the deal modern man was presented with was this: we'll give you instant global communication for pennies, but in return governments and corporations will closely monitor everyone on the planet: where they are, who they call, how long the call is, their texts, messages, and other communications -- basically their thoughts. We'll record this forever to use as we choose. Trust us. As a global population, we seem to h…

i think if this kind of thing is inevitable, then it should be the case that this kind of information should be completely public to all, not just to governments. similar to what David Brin argues ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transparent_Society )

I understand that if this information is available solely to government agents, a rouge one can potentially do anything they want with it; but if it is available to all, does that not make me even more vulnerable because now anyone who doesn't like me can get a clear overview of my daily routes, or my address, etc?
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