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Valve joins the Linux Foundation

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Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#101
post #6

It will be interesting to see whether Valve can encourage the move to Linux gaming. Their biggest asset at this time is the distribution model of Steam, but that's not sufficient to get the big publishers to develop for OSX, never mind Linux. Edit: Valve's game list: http://www.valvesoftware.com/games/

> Their biggest asset at this time is the distribution model of Steam

IMO the Steam Machines will offer a very supportive backing as well.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#102
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your problem is using Linux Mint... Both Steam and Wine work perfectly on Ubuntu 13.10 (I'm running both on my 13.10 laptop).

> Your problem is using Linux Mint... I think you just provided a shining example of the potential problems linux gaming faces...

I've used Steam successfully with Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora, Arch, Manjaro...

Mint is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#103
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. Playing on a Macbook is impossible (presumably for performance reasons?), but you talk about putting Linux on a 2002 PC for gaming. And Linux may or may not run on the latest generation hot stuff, depending on how much time you want to spend to get your newest graphics card w…

> Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. There's an estimated 20 million Ubuntu users worldwide, probably another 10 million or so of other Linux distros. Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. Adoption isn't a problem. Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware. > As an aside, Lin…

I'm curious what the user base of gaming focused users in for linux world wide. Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Perhaps I am wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love this to work, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it will work better than a platform that is already successful at getting people to spend money on games (see Mac App Store, iOS).

>You sound like an iOS developer. It's not like every Windows PC has the same screen resolution and hardware, yet it's the biggest gaming platform...

This coming from the guy who just told someone their problem is that they are running Linux Mint...

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#104

The one thing that has forced me keep Windows on my PC is the fact that most games require it. Hearing that such a large player in the gaming industry wants to move to Linux is really fantastic news.

The only thing that bugs me is that driver support is lagging behind so bad on Linux. I remember when Linus said something about why you should buy ATI for linux gaming. Because they have open source drivers.. In the end I returned my ATI card. My older Turion x64/hd3650 something laptop is still struggling with whatever flavor Linux. Still a work in progresss to get my Samsung 40" full hd TV through HDMI detected as…

I'd say that there have been some major improvements to driver support in the last year. There are two drivers for ATI gpu's out there, the open source driver and the catalyst driver that comes from ATI. The open source driver has been stable for quite some time, but the performance was lacking. The Catalyst drivers have recently been shown a little love that they desperately needed, and there was a kernel patch sometime around v3.8 that fixed a problem with Radeon and KMS conflicts.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#105
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it's seriously lacking a competitor in that sense. I would say that GIMP is in top 5 of worst software ever made, what made me think of that is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_music_considered_the_wo... I quote: Paradoxically, a piece of music needs to have been noticeable, popular or memorable to be deemed the "worst ever." A piece that was unpopular and quickly forgotten is unlikely to top all-ti…

I would hardly call it worst. It does not have the most intuitive UX, but once you get used to it it's quite nice and gets the job done. And it's open source (royalty free). I like it. I'd call it PS-incompatible. Would be nice to see a study on two control groups who each either start learning PS or GIMP for a few weeks and see how they get common tasks accomplished and how they feel about their control group softwa…

I've not spent much time with GIMP, but opening dialog boxes as separate applications put me off of it pretty quick. Got the job done, but I didn't exactly feel like it was helping me do so.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#106
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. Playing on a Macbook is impossible (presumably for performance reasons?), but you talk about putting Linux on a 2002 PC for gaming. And Linux may or may not run on the latest generation hot stuff, depending on how much time you want to spend to get your newest graphics card w…

> And Linux may or may not run on the latest generation hot stuff, This is quite wrong. Most of PC gaming occurs on the desktop, and desktop hardware Linux compatibility is excellent. You see more issues on laptops, true, but again that's not where the main gaming crowd is on PC.

I would not go so far as to say that 3D hardware support in linux is "excellent". Probably as good as on Mac, true, but far from excellent. Basically if you want high end graphics on Linux you need to use an Nvidia card and their closed drivers. This closes of a section of the linux community right away. Intel and AMD have open source drivers but AMDs are terrible (no power management, buggy) and Intel still does not approach the performance of Nvidia for 3D gaming. The Nvidia drivers are good, but always lag behind their Windows cousins. Things are improving, but "excellent" is not the word I would use.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#107
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. There's an estimated 20 million Ubuntu users worldwide, probably another 10 million or so of other Linux distros. Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. Adoption isn't a problem. Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware. > As an aside, Lin…

I'm curious what the user base of gaming focused users in for linux world wide. Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Perhaps I am wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'd love this to work, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it will work better than a platform that is already successful at getting people to spend money on games (see Mac App Store, i…

> I'm curious what the user base of gaming focused users in for linux world wide. Linux tends to attract developers rather than users who spend a great deal of money on their gaming hobby. Perhaps I am wrong.

I'd wager a good portion of Linux devs are gamers, and likely just dual-boot, have a console, an iPad, etc... Seeing as how the barrier to using Linux is lower than either Windows or OSX, it doesn't really matter how many users currently use it, as much as how many will in the future...

> Don't get me wrong, I'd love this to work, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to say it will work better than a platform that is already successful at getting people to spend money on games (see Mac App Store, iOS).

As we like to say in trading, past performance doesn't guarantee future results... In any case, if you look at something like Humble Bundle, Linux total revenue almost always beats OSX revenue in Humble Bundle sales...

> This coming from the guy who just told someone their problem is that they are running Linux Mint...

Isn't it though? If a program works on every single other distro...

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#108
post #60

If we introduced the Linus-Gates number by analogy with the Erdős-Bacon number [1] but for code, what would Gabe Newell's Linus-Gates number be today? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s%E2%80%93Bacon_numbe...

Did Gabe and Gates write any substantial code? At least lately? I don't think we could relate them.

Gabe was the 271st employee at Microsoft[0] and "was the producer on the first three releases of Windows"[1], so I suppose that, even if he hasn't contributed to the very same code as Bill Gates did, there must be an earlier employee who has. I don't estimate his Gates code number to be more than 2.

[0] http://www.giantbomb.com/gabe-newell/3040-4498/

[1] http://www.computerandvideogames.com/172835/interviews/creat...

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#109
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X is not a good platform for gaming. It has a significantly smaller user base of which only an even more significantly smaller are gamers. Playing on a MacBook (or at least on my MacBook) is impossible, and I wouldn't buy an iMac for gaming. On the other hand, you can put Linux on anything (for free!), from your mom's 2002 pc to the latest generation hot stuff. This means there is indeed a potential, and somebody…

I regularly play Dota2 on my MacBook Air. Works well enough.

Ditto.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#110
post #108
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Gabe and Gates write any substantial code? At least lately? I don't think we could relate them.

Gabe was the 271st employee at Microsoft[0] and "was the producer on the first three releases of Windows"[1], so I suppose that, even if he hasn't contributed to the very same code as Bill Gates did, there must be an earlier employee who has. I don't estimate his Gates code number to be more than 2. [0] http://www.giantbomb.com/gabe-newell/3040-4498/ [1] http://www.computerandvideogames.com/172835/interviews/creat...

Oh I forgot Gabe worked at MS, in that case, yeah, it must be pretty low. Gabe worked both at Valve and MS, and both companies have submitted code to the Linux Kernel.
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