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F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

bbc.co.uk

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Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#131

Post by stan_rogers »

beat wrote: post #67
sanoli wrote: post #5

There are so many rules dictating the design of an F1 chassis/engine that I wonder how much faster a "anything goes" car would go.

There used to be an "anything goes" series… the original Can-Am (1966-1986) - what Car and Driver called "the vehicular equivalent of great white sharks in a goldfish bowl". The regulations were basically "two seats, enclosed fenders". There was effectively no regulation of engine size or configuration, or of aerodynamics. It was abandoned in part due to extreme cost, and in part due to the safety problems. The last…

Safety problems, indeed. The 917/30, f'rinstance, had a chassis and bodywork you'd be leery of building into a child's pedal car wrapped around a twin-turbo flat twelve that could deliver 1800 bhp when turned up to eleven (and, given the turbos of the time, that power was pretty much on/off rather than something you could lay on gradually). But those were the days when "retirement" and "race car driver" were practically mutually exclusive terms.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#132

Post by Fuzzwah »

pacofvf wrote: post #119

I read sometime ago about how supposedly the KERS was used as Traction Control System by Red Bull, so this new "ERS", which is not even activated by the driver, seems more suited to be modified to act as a TCS.

The "traction control" part of the KERS system wasn't controlled by the driver. The best guess is that a system monitored wheel slip by the oscillation of the rear suspension. The extra power was fed into the recovery system rather than being wasted as wheel slip.

I think all teams will be doing this in 2014.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#133

Post by Avshalom »

forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #47
collyw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars going round in circles? I already find that fairly boring.

That's NASCAR, not F1. In F1 you see real cars, doing real curves, not the thing NASCAR does like having a car that only could turn one way. In F1 you see cars going through the streets of Monaco or Valencia, or German circuits that you could race yourself with your own car. BTW I do it.

In NASCAR you see cars passing each other.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#134

Post by ericcumbee »

bliti wrote: post #52

The interesting bit here is the development of the turbochargers. This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new[1]. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. They do not face the same regulations as regular autos. Seems they are doing away with the wastegate and replacing it with a…

Audi was developing a system similar to this for the R18 for 2013. However the FIA steped in at the last minute and nixed it. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmarch13.html

So, what is (was) the new mystery hybrid system? I hear through the grape vine that it is an "Air Hybrid" system and understand that it works like this: a compressed air reservoir is charged by the engine cylinders during braking/coasting and then released on acceleration, eliminating turbo lag. The beauty is that it augments the engine without the need for heavy, environmentally unfriendly, batteries.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#135

Post by ericcumbee »

paulyg wrote: post #80
bliti wrote: post #52

The interesting bit here is the development of the turbochargers. This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new[1]. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. They do not face the same regulations as regular autos. Seems they are doing away with the wastegate and replacing it with a…

Turbocharging has been making a huge comeback in the US over the last 5 years, driven mainly by the increase in fuel economy it affords. The biggest example of this is Ford's Ecoboost engines, which are all turbocharged and direct injection. Many 2014 Cadillacs are V6 turbos. There are countless 1.8 and 2.0 VW and Audi turbos on our roads. Let's not forget all the WRXs and Mini Cooper S, Acura RDX (<=2012), Mazda CX7…

I have one of the New Ford Escapes with the 1.6L 4 Cylinder ecoboost engine and it is wonderful. I got 35MPG on the highway in a small SUV.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#136

Post by ericcumbee »

cjrp wrote: post #101
bliti wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. My point was that there not many petrol or gasoline powered turbocharged autos. Diesels powered autos are commonly turbocharged. In the USA, diesel autos are not common. Thus, turbos are mostly seen in high-performance vehicles (like the 911, WRX, etc.).

Interesting. Is it hard to find gas stations which sell diesel over there as a result?

At least in Georgia, most gas stations also sell diesel. That could be a product of more people owning pickup trucks (some of them have Diesel engines) and the fact that I tend to live in a more agriculturally focused area.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#137

Post by arethuza »

JanezStupar wrote: post #128
arethuza wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VAG have a rather nice twin-charged 1.4L engine - with a supercharger and a turbocharger - the former being used at low revs and the latter at high revs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol...

Nice but AFAIK unreliable.

Well, we're on our second Golf that has a 1.4TSI and I'd happily buy another one!

[My downsizing of car sizes has seen me go from a 4.4 V8 BMW to a 2.5 V6 Turbo diesel VW to a 1.4TSI VW - perfectly happy with the latter now!]

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#138

Post by VBprogrammer »

gambiting wrote: post #84
bliti wrote: post #52

The interesting bit here is the development of the turbochargers. This is an area that has been slow to change over the years, due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new[1]. Most turbos are used in heavy machinery (garbage trucks, big rigs, etc.), a slowly changing industry. They do not face the same regulations as regular autos. Seems they are doing away with the wastegate and replacing it with a…

" due to the small amount of turbocharged vehicles available new"??? Pretty much 99% of diesel cars available now in Europe have turbochargers, I don't remember when was the last time I saw a car without one. And most newly announced cars for 2014(for example - new Nissan Qashqai) got rid of their naturally aspirated petrol engines in favour of smaller but turbocharged petrol engines. Maybe in the US the situation is…

Just to expand on that a little, turbo diesel engines are extremely common in Europe in even the smallest of cars. Diesel engines are particularly good candidates for turbo charging as diesel requires more air per unit of fuel to burn.

While significantly noisier these are very fuel efficient and even quite fun to drive due to their torque output.

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#139

Post by sanoli »

jsvaughan wrote: post #63
sanoli wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I meant was what if an F1 team of designers didn't have to be constrained by any rules and could build their dream F1 car. For example, there was one car a couple of decades ago (I think early 80's maybe?) that used a sort of vaccum effect to keep the car sucked to the ground. It improved cornering speeds greatly, but the device was banned. I googled some and found this: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.…

You might be referring to the Gordon Murray designed Brabham BT46 "Fan car": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46

That's the one I was thinking about, thanks!

From the Wikipedia article: "The BT46B generated an immense level of downforce by means of a fan, claimed to be for increased cooling, but which also extracted air from beneath the car. The car only raced once in this configuration in the Formula One World Championship—when Niki Lauda won the 1978 Swedish Grand Prix at Anderstorp. To the dismay of its designer Gordon Murray, the concept was voluntarily withdrawn from racing again by Bernie Ecclestone."

Re: F1 2014: All aboard the 'power train' - new rules explained

#140

Post by gambiting »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #117
bliti wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are less gas stations that sell Diesel. Most are located around common routes used by the shipping industry. Also, the requirements for Diesel fuel in the USA is different than in Europe. Plus the price of diesel is actually higher than gasoline. There is another phenomena around diesels in the USA. Which is the perception of the general population towards them. People often think of them as noisy, smelly,…

Come now. American impressions of diesel cars were formed by the ghastly Mercedes cars of the 80s and the Volvo DL, both smokey and pokey and unreliable. It's taken many years to shake that reputation. It doesn't help that the manufacturers refuse to market the cars here. VW is really the only mark with good success selling diesel cars in the USA. It makes sense that diesel costs more because it contains more energy…

But then on the other hand, diesel requires less work to be done to get it than petrol(gasoline) does. Both arguments are perfectly valid.

And most EU countries(with the stark exception of UK) have diesel a lot cheaper than petrol.

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