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No Girls Allowed

polygon.com

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Re: No Girls Allowed

#21

Post by galaktor »

xmonkee wrote: post #5

I dunno if it's just me, but I usually skip an article that starts with something like "Four-year-old Riley Maida stands in a toy aisle of a department ...." and then there's a mile of scrolling to do. At least tell me what your central thesis is going to be if you're asking me to invest so much time and emotion into a story.

I tried to squeeze the subtitle into the title of this post, too - but it didn't fit so I just left the main title there, assuming one could simply read the subtitle on the main site...

Re: No Girls Allowed

#22

Post by k_os »

mdisraeli wrote: post #18
k_os wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe marketers have an agenda about indoctrinating girls to like pink? In the hopes that you are not a conspiracy theorist you must assume marketers haven't done any research about what girls innately like and are purely marketing products based on what you might call 'traditional' views. It's much easier to market sugar than it is to market broccoli so that's what most foods marketed today contain. I don't…

http://www.wisegeek.com/have-pink-and-blue-always-been-consi... http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/When-Did-Girls-St... - extract from this: 'For example, a June 1918 article from the trade publication Earnshaw's Infants' Department said, “The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, wh…

Thanks, I didn't know that. I myself don't know if I dislike pink because i associate it with weakness or not.

Do you have any articles about toy function being socially conditioned into genders? Girls toys mostly consist of 'nurturer' stereotypes. For example tea sets, doll houses or baby dolls with baby cribs.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#23

Post by runarberg »

k_os wrote: post #3

I myself believe in market dynamics. If girls were interested in what boys had they'd pursue it. If girls hated barbies they would nag parents about getting a train or a car and market demand for barbies would dry up. The fact that toy dolls are a billion dollar industry should make one sceptical about the supposed 'girliness that society instills in girls'. I find that premise as silly as thinking boys were somehow…

According to your theory --of children as free thinkers whose actions represent their own 'free will'-- doesn't account for why advertizement works. If it were true, nobody would spend money on advertizement because everybody's actions is fully controlled by rational thinkers.

Nor does your theory account for insanity or stupidity (why do something stupid if you have full control of your actions?)

In fact your theory implies that children somehow are agents not affected by outside stimuli. Which would make them unique in nature.

Your theory in fact is by far more unbelievable then any theory of the powers of marketing.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#24

Post by spindritf »

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that marketing has anywhere near the power this article ascribes to it?

I hear this a lot lately. Some people believe that media have an almost magical power of shaping culture and behaviours.

Beauty? Cosmo propaganda. Boys liking different toys than girls? Marketing.

Yet when you dig a little deeper, studies on priming usually get wee p-values and barely significant, temporary changes in behaviour, if any. And when they do show something more, they're impossible to replicate, or straight-up fraud.

I don't buy it.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#25

Post by chalst »

crusso wrote: post #12
lclarkmichalek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument kind of ignores marketing. If I spend several million (probably billions cumulatively at this point) telling people that product X should be associated with characteristic Y which is traditionally assigned more to one gender than another, then I'm likely to be modifying the market to an extent that you cannot truthfully say that market dynamics provide a reason for the disparity that will emerge.

I'd be willing to bet that you don't have at least 2 non-twin children. They want what they want. They have desires to be boys, girls, rough, quiet, loud, masculine, feminine, etc. all without (and often in spite of) being influenced to the contrary. Advertising just showcases things that they already mostly want. It doesn't completely change their desires.

You moved the goalposts there a little: why the "completely" in "It doesn't completely change their desires"?

What children want is influenced by what their peers want, and what peer groups find desirable is influenced, among other things, by merchandising-related children's TV programming.

When I was young, there was far less difference between boys toys and girls toys than there is now.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#27

Post by Fomite »

hownottowrite wrote: post #6

In 1983, North America experienced a massive recession in the video game industry, now known as the video game crash. The crash had devastating effects, bankrupting game company after game company. At its peak, the revenues for video games in the U.S. sat at $3.2 billion in 1983. By 1985, revenues fell a whopping 97 percent to approximately $100 million. There are many factors behind the crash. The key factor is that…

That was my thought exactly.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#28

Post by tomp »

spindritf wrote: post #24

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that marketing has anywhere near the power this article ascribes to it? I hear this a lot lately. Some people believe that media have an almost magical power of shaping culture and behaviours. Beauty? Cosmo propaganda. Boys liking different toys than girls? Marketing. Yet when you dig a little deeper, studies on priming usually get wee p-values and barely significant, temporary cha…

I remember all the fear mongering about violence in computer games (especially first-person shooters). Now, there is a whole generation of 20-somethings that grew up staring at the screen and shooting people and monsters, and crime rates have not gone up (in fact, they are falling IIRC).

Accordingly, I don't think marketing can change our desires and behaviour. Sure, it can change what we buy through brand-perception, but the desire to buy must already be there (e.g. we want shiny rare objects -> we buy diamonds (due to marketing)).

Re: No Girls Allowed

#29

Post by knowitall »

While I think the history of marketing of games is interesting, to be honest to me this read like "bla bla bla... Video games were heavily marketed as products for men, and the message was clear: No girls allowed.... bla bla bla"

Meaning the conclusion "no girls allowed" is just randomly inserted somewhere in the middle of a wall of text.

Just because boys and men were identified as a large audience and targeted with marketing does not imply that girls are not allowed.

Nobody is forcing you to choose either aisle in the toy shop. Just the other day I bought a playmobil horse for my son that came in a pink box. Whatever...

What exactly do they mean by girls not allowed? Girls are not allowed to play first person shooters? How would such a rule even be enforced?

Or the right games are not being made for girls, then there would be more female gamers? I think whoever believes that should go out and make those games. Put their money where their mouth is.

Never mind that there are already lots of games that are being played by lots of girls/women. "No girls allowed" simply has no foundation in reality whatsoever.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#30

Post by steveklabnik »

romanovcode wrote: post #2

Not another one of these posts..

Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did.

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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