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Americans don't trust each other anymore

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Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#61

Post by dinkumthinkum »

bmelton wrote: post #55
landryraccoon wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree with your characterization of people in suburbs. The only anecdote of trusting behavior given in the article was of a rural farmer in an isolated area - and it was given in contrast to people from urban New York or New Jersey coming up and being amazed about it. Here's another hypothesis - tribal or rural cultures will be more trusting by nature. Human beings are naturally paranoid but NOT of each…

I may have overcharacterized, but I was specifically referring to those in cul-de-sac neighborhoods, not all suburbanites in general. More traditional gridded suburbs, especially those with large communal parks, probably bely the behavior I described, but I'm mostly speaking intuitively on the matter, as I'm not aware of any studies. In short, I think we're probably both right. ;-)

Oh yes, cul-de-sacs have a mind destroying force ... Really, is this what science is giving us?

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#62

Post by dinkumthinkum »

grandalf wrote: post #8

There has been over a decade of propaganda telling people not to trust each other... all post-9/11 messaging intended to create insecurity in the population.

I think that is a bit different and for the most part only comes up in certain situations. Most distrust in America is not because of 9/11.

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#63

Post by dinkumthinkum »

Cowicide wrote: post #20

In my opinion, decades of corporatist conditioning and manufacturing consent are at least partially responsible for this situation. The corporate mass media has induced distrust in Americans with one another in many ways. One of which is all those articles portraying average Americans as extremely litigious and corrupt with bunk stories on hot McDonald's coffee, etc. http://boingboing.net/2013/10/21/the-true-story-ab…

I think it is more subtle than conspiracy theories.

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#64

Post by deadghost »

plainOldText wrote: post #43

Interestingly enough, in the developer community we fork and clone each others' repos like never before; I bet most people don't check the source code, unless they need to make changes. I believe there's still some trust left.

I think the keywords are "developer community". People aren't going to trust each other if there's no sense of community. Are the people around you friends you haven't met or just plain strangers?

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#65

Post by bmelton »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #61
bmelton wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may have overcharacterized, but I was specifically referring to those in cul-de-sac neighborhoods, not all suburbanites in general. More traditional gridded suburbs, especially those with large communal parks, probably bely the behavior I described, but I'm mostly speaking intuitively on the matter, as I'm not aware of any studies. In short, I think we're probably both right. ;-)

Oh yes, cul-de-sacs have a mind destroying force ... Really, is this what science is giving us?

There is existing data that strongly suggests corroboration here. Isolationist and/or segregated communities breed distrust of those outside the community. Cul de sacs are but a softer implementation of that segregation. Buying trends indicate that in most cases, cul de sac purchases are done with less diversity in mind -- whites buy in predominately white cul de sacs, minorities do the same; which just compounds the self-reinforcing price strata already existing within neighborhood communities.

That said, despite your low-brow dismissal, I'm not suggesting that cul de sacs are evil. They are very good at building close-knit, but very small communities. Kids that play in cul de sacs generally do so in plain view of everybody else, and with less traffic interruption, encouraging play and discouraging deviant behavior.

Cul de sac kids have a greater sense of trust with those within the immediate community, but at the expense of less trust for those outside that community -- just as isolated communities tend to do.

[1] - http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1523709 [2] - http://chd.sagepub.com/content/20/2/229.full.pdf+html

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#66

Post by bmelton »

kahirsch wrote: post #54
bmelton wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust the reports, and I trust the data, but the trend has been pretty obvious, I'd wager, and predictable for some time now. People in the suburbs increasingly migrate to cul-de-sac communities, which isolate them from the rest of the world, to make them feel safer, depriving their children of the much-needed contact with a diverse population that builds trust. Beyond that, the news is more and more pervasive, and…

> depriving their children of the much-needed contact with a diverse population that builds trust. I think the evidence is that more diversity brings less trust.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and...

Putnam's data aside, we've seen the Contact Hypothesis show true in regards to homosexuals. Once a pariah, a generation of contact with homosexuals has trended towards acceptance.

Also interesting is that in Putnam's hypothesis, the last bullet relating to diversity indicates media influence -- "More time spent watching television and more agreement that 'television is my most important form of entertainment'".

I'm interested in Putnam's work though, but I'd like to see if other causes can't be seen as contributing factors. Thanks for the link.

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#67

Post by dinkumthinkum »

bmelton wrote: post #65
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, cul-de-sacs have a mind destroying force ... Really, is this what science is giving us?

There is existing data that strongly suggests corroboration here. Isolationist and/or segregated communities breed distrust of those outside the community. Cul de sacs are but a softer implementation of that segregation. Buying trends indicate that in most cases, cul de sac purchases are done with less diversity in mind -- whites buy in predominately white cul de sacs, minorities do the same; which just compounds the…

It is not a low brow dismissal, appealing to a HN meme doesn't save your position. :) A cul-de-sac is hardly an isolationist community. If anything you could probably go find data these people are more naive or trusting than the norm. Your position is just a rehash of the unquestioned assumptions of "suburbanites" that I think probably have a little but more to do, ironically, with "media conditioning" than even you might think.

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#68

Post by bmelton »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #67
bmelton wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is existing data that strongly suggests corroboration here. Isolationist and/or segregated communities breed distrust of those outside the community. Cul de sacs are but a softer implementation of that segregation. Buying trends indicate that in most cases, cul de sac purchases are done with less diversity in mind -- whites buy in predominately white cul de sacs, minorities do the same; which just compounds the…

It is not a low brow dismissal, appealing to a HN meme doesn't save your position. :) A cul-de-sac is hardly an isolationist community. If anything you could probably go find data these people are more naive or trusting than the norm. Your position is just a rehash of the unquestioned assumptions of "suburbanites" that I think probably have a little but more to do, ironically, with "media conditioning" than even you…

My position doesn't apply to all, or even most suburbanites, nor is it entirely critical. I don't know why you're taking offense to it, especially offense that you haven't bothered to refute.

Cul de sacs are insular, and that's considered a selling point of them. I'll grant that they're not quite as extreme as gated communities, but that they exist for the purposes of insulating one from traffic otherwise associated with more frequented byways. That isn't a contrivance, it's their stated purpose. It shouldn't come as a shock that insulation from use as a thoroughfare would extend to insulation from outside contact, as that's the obvious result.

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#69

Post by hacknat »

dwaltrip wrote: post #46
hacknat wrote: post #10

Americans also live in a much more diverse and accepting society than they did 40 years ago. Let's give it some time, hmmm? Articles like this make me peevish. I really dislike articles that glorify the 1950s-1990s, in anyway, without acknowledging what a strange time it was. Post-war America deserves far more criticism than it ever receives; I often think this is because boomers have a hard time criticizing the era…

Say not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not inquire wisely concerning this. Yeah, because being inquisitive and asking questions is bad!

The KJV is wrong in its translation (why did you even reach for it?). My degree was in Ancient Semitic Literature. A better translation is the NRSV which is as follows:

Do not say, “Why were the former days better than these?” For it is not from wisdom that you ask this.

The proverb isn't about squelching inquiry, it's about squelching the belief that the past generation was better than the next. It follows a long litany of proverbs, in context, that describe how to accept the reality that has been given to you.

Re: Americans don't trust each other anymore

#70

Post by emmelaich »

michaelochurch wrote: post #51

Sorry to do this, but it has to be done. Mistrust != distrust. Distrust is when you don't trust someone. Mistrust is when you trust someone you should not. For a more serious note, I've noticed this trend as well. One of the reasons I expect Silicon Valley's decline into irrelevance to be even faster than it looks is that it really was the pay-it-forward culture that made something of the place. That's what built it,…

Great comment.

I think it's interesting that the word "trustworthy" doesn't appear in the article.

And it only appears in these HN comments once. (well, twice now :)

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