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Why are there so many tunnels under London?

economist.com

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Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#41

Post by archangel_one »

claudius wrote: post #16
cmajewsk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about 'too old', but it is old. It states in the article that..." the London Underground, opened in the city 150 years ago.: The county I am living in currently, will be celebrating only its 42 birthday tomorrow...think about it.

And I am very thankful that the undergrounds in the cities where I spent most of my time were built much later: Tunnelling techniques evolved quickly during the late 18th and early 19th century, allowing for much more ‘comfortable’ tunnel diameters – there is a reason the London Underground is called the tube, it’s difficult to stand in most of its trains.

Nope - the newest lines (Victoria, Jubilee) are all smaller diameter trains. The larger, squarer cut+covers (District, Circle, Metropolitan etc) are generally older, because you can't cut a trench across London for a new Tube line any more.

It's still not hard to stand on any of the trains as long as you're not right beside the door on a Tube (unless you're extremely unusually tall, but the odds are well against that).

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#42

Post by alexkus »

ColinWright wrote: post #30
zhuzhu wrote: post #2

The city is too old.

The difference between America and England is that the Americans think 100 years is a long time, whereas the English think 100 miles is a long way. Just for reference ... My house was built in 1903. The college I went to was founded in 1352. The city my wife grew up in was occupied by the Romans sometime between 70 and 80 AD.

> The difference between America and England is that the Americans think 100 years is a long time, whereas the English think 100 miles is a long way.

Having lived in both countries I think that's a good way of thinking about it (for the average person.)

(Obviously individuals will differ; 100 miles is a half day cycle ride for me so I don't think of it as that long a way.)

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#43

Post by junto »

ra wrote: post #29
junto wrote: post #18

There are lots of secret MOD tunnels as well. Some of them run out of London across the country with rail tracks to nuclear bunkers that were to be used when nuclear war broke out. To put the scale of it in perspective, one if the tunnels runs to a bunker in Wales south of Aberystwyth.

London to Aberystwyth is about 380km. I seriously doubt there's a tunnel.

Like I said in another thread, I also found that unlikely, but I trust the source.

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#44

Post by VLM »

Nobody else caught on to the "its booming economy provided the financing." bit?

To say a tunnel is capital intensive is an understatement. So you need rule of law, stable and very large financial markets, relatively low corruption.

In comparison, there are other large cities built on good tunneling dirt that are perfectly unsuitable for a tunneling project for purely human reasons.

Manhattan is no picnic to dig a tunnel thru, but finances being what they are, it also looks like swiss cheese.

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#46

Post by gushie »

junto wrote: post #39
jdsnape wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that last example? Seems like it would be a bit difficult to keep a tunnel of that scale secret.

I was dubious too, but I trust the source of that information. The bunker in question isn't on any of the lists you'll find on the Internet. The bunker is also very well hidden. I can't find the entrance on Google Maps, but I'm very sure of the location within a few kms.

It does exist. I heard from another source that they filmed the Apollo Moon Landings inside it...

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#47

Post by csmuk »

junto wrote: post #18

There are lots of secret MOD tunnels as well. Some of them run out of London across the country with rail tracks to nuclear bunkers that were to be used when nuclear war broke out. To put the scale of it in perspective, one if the tunnels runs to a bunker in Wales south of Aberystwyth.

Despite common assurances otherwise, this is possibly the case. It's not beyond engineering technology of the era.

When people purchased bunkers post-cold-war, they were confronted with "permanent sealed" doors that cannot be opened within the bunkers. These are welded shut and the ports on the door filled with concrete so that it filled whatever was behind. You can go and see these at Kelvedon Hatch in Essex and could previously see these at Ash Radar Station in Kent (before thebunker.net bought it). Each of these doors is closest to the "London side" of things. When they were built, people spoke of the ground vibrating for months at a time in various places along the routes apparently as well (although I can't find a source for that -it might be well just be rumor).

They would be very small tunnels (pedestrian/small vehicle) sort of like cheesy James Bond bad guy monorail sized outfits but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

Those who worked on them though are sworn to secrecy or are dead so we'll probably never know. That is until someone has the balls to fight their way through the welded and filled doors which would take weeks and be extortionately expensive due to the diamond belt saws needed I've been assured.

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#48

Post by michaelt »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #38

The post office tunnels http://www.silentuk.com/?p=2792 just seems crazy to abandon these recently. Use of these must be worth a fortune given where they run.

Things like this can end up like steam trains and classic cars - very nice, certainly wouldn't want to see them abandoned or destroyed, but expensive to maintain due to the poor availability of spare parts or experienced workers.

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#49

Post by junto »

csmuk wrote: post #47
junto wrote: post #18

There are lots of secret MOD tunnels as well. Some of them run out of London across the country with rail tracks to nuclear bunkers that were to be used when nuclear war broke out. To put the scale of it in perspective, one if the tunnels runs to a bunker in Wales south of Aberystwyth.

Despite common assurances otherwise, this is possibly the case. It's not beyond engineering technology of the era. When people purchased bunkers post-cold-war, they were confronted with "permanent sealed" doors that cannot be opened within the bunkers. These are welded shut and the ports on the door filled with concrete so that it filled whatever was behind. You can go and see these at Kelvedon Hatch in Essex and cou…

I'm fairly sure that this bunker is still in use.

Since someone reading this might have similar interests, I have a question. I have recently seen a document, which I think must have been part of the Snowden leak, but I'm struggling to find it again. It s a map of all of the listening points from the Tempora program. They were all common first names, differently sized boxes on the map.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about then I'd love a copy.

Re: Why are there so many tunnels under London?

#50

Post by m1 »

junto wrote: post #18

There are lots of secret MOD tunnels as well. Some of them run out of London across the country with rail tracks to nuclear bunkers that were to be used when nuclear war broke out. To put the scale of it in perspective, one if the tunnels runs to a bunker in Wales south of Aberystwyth.

If you're not prepared to reveal the source or anymore information about the tunnel to Wales -- what was the point of this comment?
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