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Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

strongloop.com

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Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#81

Post by X-Istence »

mseepgood wrote: post #33
selmnoo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, Ben lacks tact? Says who? I think you guys are maybe confusing the tough Dutch culture as being insensitive to some hot issues. Ben is an extremely smart, extremely prolific programmer. When you're out and about like him you're bound to get yourself tripped somewhere along the way. As an aside, while Joyent has exposed itself as being extremely unprofessional and prone to jumping on the gun, I'm saddened that St…

> I think you guys are maybe confusing the tough Dutch culture as being insensitive to some hot issues. I've read that the Netherlands have a racist Santa Claus tradition and even some politicians are defending it against change. :/ Edit: found the article http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/protests-sparked-...

Way to go making a comment about a culture and tradition you are unfamiliar with based upon a newspaper article that doesn't go into the history behind said tradition!

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#82

Post by plinkplonk »

Brakenshire wrote: post #56
aviraldg wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was comparing against Indian English, but point noted.

Ah, I wasn't meaning to tell you what the usage is in your country, just trying to make the narrow point about American English. As an aside, do you mind if I ask, is there a narrative in India about protecting the Indian dialect of English, like you might get in Britain about vulgur Americanization, or in America about pretentious Britishisms?

No there isn't a 'protect Indian English' narrative here.

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#83

Post by CyruzDraxs »

Brakenshire wrote: post #58
dreamfactory wrote: post #39

Are these people illiterate? Are they not aware that in the English language masculine pronouns are correct for both gender-specific and gender-neutral uses? Mankind refers to everybody. It may seem awkward, particularly to over-literal types, but so is our spelling, grammar, and pronunciation generally.

Mankind is gender neutral, it's highly debatable whether he, him or his are also.

Several centuries of linguistic evolution would disagree. Those have always been neutral, though there has been usage of singular "they" dating back to Shakespearean-era.

It is somewhat widely accepted that he/him/his is only gender-neutral in situations where the gender is ambiguous though. For example, in writing documentation.

Personally, I think it sounds weird and prefer they/one.

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#85

Post by Lazare »

CyruzDraxs wrote: post #79
Lazare wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God yes. It feels like everyone involved went out of their way to make things worse at every step. An invalid but well-meaning pull request? Better give it a cryptic rejection. A rejected by politically sensitive pull request? Better pull rank and force its acceptance in violation of project guidelines. Main project backers violating project guidelines? Better reverse their commits with a passive aggressive commit me…

A signed CLA may seem silly, but there were changes in code comments. That makes code ownership ambiguous, and the law doesn't tend to play nice with ambiguity.

Oh, I know. You shouldn't play games with code ownership; CLAs are important for any commit.

I was just thinking that this could have been handled better via an email to a committer who already had a signed CLA. Would have sidestepped a lot of drama. Oh well.

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#86

Post by piscisaureus »

austinz wrote: post #46
mintplant wrote: post #31

From Joyent's blog post [1]: > But while Isaac is a Joyent employee, Ben is not—and if he had been, he wouldn't be as of this morning: to reject a pull request that eliminates a gendered pronoun on the principle that pronouns should in fact be gendered would constitute a fireable offense for me and for Joyent. For comparison, here is bnoordhuis's comment from the pull request thread [2] that the post is referencing:…

Ben was called a bigot and his rejection of the pull request was ascribed to the "principle that pronouns should in fact be gendered" (from the Joyent blog). The problem is, all of this is being extrapolated from his statement "sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that", which could be seen as a flippant dismissal of gender issues in the tech industry - or it could be simply a curt response acknowledging sta…

Well, there you go: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29568...

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#87

Post by BrainInAJar »

mintplant wrote: post #31

From Joyent's blog post [1]: > But while Isaac is a Joyent employee, Ben is not—and if he had been, he wouldn't be as of this morning: to reject a pull request that eliminates a gendered pronoun on the principle that pronouns should in fact be gendered would constitute a fireable offense for me and for Joyent. For comparison, here is bnoordhuis's comment from the pull request thread [2] that the post is referencing:…

> Sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that.

No, it's not simply the original rejection of the PR, it was the subsequent reversion of the PR's acceptance

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#88

Post by hackula1 »

> But if he can, we’ll get Node v0.12 delivered a lot faster and have a stronger community.

And of course, Strongloop could not help but make another half way claim that they are the ones "in charge" of node. This current stuff aside, I just cannot believe their lack of shame when trying to take commercial credit for a community project.

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#89

Post by Lazare »

piscisaureus wrote: post #86
austinz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ben was called a bigot and his rejection of the pull request was ascribed to the "principle that pronouns should in fact be gendered" (from the Joyent blog). The problem is, all of this is being extrapolated from his statement "sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that", which could be seen as a flippant dismissal of gender issues in the tech industry - or it could be simply a curt response acknowledging sta…

Well, there you go: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29568...

Joyent is looking worse and worse as the dust settles.

Re: Collaboration not Derision in the Node Community

#90

Post by JohnTHaller »

For context, here is the entirety of what Ben Noordhuis has publicly said on the matter thus far:

"Sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that."

- https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29538...

"@isaacs may have his commit bit but that does not mean he is at liberty to land patches at will. All patches have to be signed off by either me or Bert. Isaac, consider yourself chided."

- https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40ee14dc0f82c482d...

"Hi all, let me try to clear up a few things.

Why I rejected the pull request. Us maintainers tend to reject tiny doc changes because they're often more trouble than they're worth. You have to collect and check the CLA, it makes git blame less effective, etc.

That's why the usual approach to such pull requests is 'no, unless' - in this case the 'unless' should probably have applied. To me as a non-native speaker, the difference between 'him' and 'them' seems academic but hey, if it gets us scores of female contributors, who am I to object?

Why I reverted the commit. In hindsight, I should have given Isaac the benefit of the doubt because I don't doubt that he acted with the best of intentions. On the other hand, if another committer jumped the line like that, I would have done the same thing. We have procedures in place and no one is exempt from them.

To the people that felt it necessary to call me a misogynist: I volunteer in a mentorship program that gets young people - especially young women - involved in technology. How many of you go out and actively try to increase the number of women in the field?

I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core development. I do it more out a sense of duty than anything else. If this is what I have to deal with, then I'd just as rather do something else. Hope that clears things up. Thanks."

- https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29568...

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