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Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

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Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#11

Post by michaelsbradley »

austinz wrote: post #3

It's a quixotic dream, but one I think is quite beautiful. In terms of 'revived' languages used today in everyday life, the most successful one that comes to mind is Hebrew (and there was a strong desire for national cohesion for a newly created state that in part drove its revival). I don't think anything remotely similar exists in Europe today to drive the widespread adoption of Latin, especially as the drive for f…

Latin is still in daily/weekly use in those Catholic churches around the world that celebrate the traditional form of the Roman liturgy, or use the Latin edition of its modern form. Many clergy and laity alike study, learn and treasure the Latin readings, prayers, chants and hymns that form such an important part of the Western Church's heritage.

In Saint Louis, Missouri, USA we have a church where the traditional Latin Mass is celebrated daily, the Oratory of St. Francis de Sales[1].

If you're not familiar with how the traditional Roman liturgy looks and sounds, there are a number of video recordings online[2].

[1] http://www.institute-christ-king.org/stlouis/

[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c32brXXx5k8

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#12

Post by superpatosainz »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #11
austinz wrote: post #3

It's a quixotic dream, but one I think is quite beautiful. In terms of 'revived' languages used today in everyday life, the most successful one that comes to mind is Hebrew (and there was a strong desire for national cohesion for a newly created state that in part drove its revival). I don't think anything remotely similar exists in Europe today to drive the widespread adoption of Latin, especially as the drive for f…

Latin is still in daily/weekly use in those Catholic churches around the world that celebrate the traditional form of the Roman liturgy, or use the Latin edition of its modern form. Many clergy and laity alike study, learn and treasure the Latin readings, prayers, chants and hymns that form such an important part of the Western Church's heritage. In Saint Louis, Missouri, USA we have a church where the traditional La…

Actually, most Catholic churches now is celebrated in their region's language, after Jean Paul II's Second Vatican Council.

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#13

Post by michaelsbradley »

superpatosainz wrote: post #12
michaelsbradley wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latin is still in daily/weekly use in those Catholic churches around the world that celebrate the traditional form of the Roman liturgy, or use the Latin edition of its modern form. Many clergy and laity alike study, learn and treasure the Latin readings, prayers, chants and hymns that form such an important part of the Western Church's heritage. In Saint Louis, Missouri, USA we have a church where the traditional La…

Actually, most Catholic churches now is celebrated in their region's language, after Jean Paul II's Second Vatican Council.

Pope John XXIII opened the Second Vatican Council in 1962, and it ended in 1965 during the pontificate of Paul VI. Karol Wojtyła, who took the name John Paul II, was elected in 1978.

Otherwise, you're correct – most parishes now celebrate in the vernacular (local language), but that's why I included the qualifying phrase "that..., or..."

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#14

Post by fennecfoxen »

superpatosainz wrote: post #12
michaelsbradley wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latin is still in daily/weekly use in those Catholic churches around the world that celebrate the traditional form of the Roman liturgy, or use the Latin edition of its modern form. Many clergy and laity alike study, learn and treasure the Latin readings, prayers, chants and hymns that form such an important part of the Western Church's heritage. In Saint Louis, Missouri, USA we have a church where the traditional La…

Actually, most Catholic churches now is celebrated in their region's language, after Jean Paul II's Second Vatican Council.

Jean Paul II did the Second Vatican Council? Right. And Linux Torvalds invented the C programming language.

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#15

Post by Spooky23 »

TruthElixirX wrote: post #2

""We have a single money, the euro," Mr. Feye says. "We should have a single language, Latin."" We do. Its called English.

Some of my countrymen feel it is a universal language -- just a matter of volume. If you yell English loudly enough, people will understand.

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#16

Post by sdpope »

I can't imagine this growing beyond a fringe movement. Countries are pretty attached to their languages, I doubt it would accomplish more that aggravate eurosceptics: The european nationalism one of the quoted proponents dismisses is a pretty powerful force that hasn't exactly accepted the degree of integration these Latin-advocates envision.

Also, the history in this article is so atrocious I had to write a blog post about it.[1]

[1]http://sdpo.pe/2013/12/which-roman-empire/

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#17

Post by contingencies »

Renaud wrote: post #4

Certainly won't happen anytime soon. English is certainly the lingua-franca of the modern world and will probably stay that way for a while. While mastering English is hard, you can get quite far with a modicum of English. Latin is an extremely important language and we should keep teaching it as a large portion of the grammar and vocabulary of Europe's languages derives from it, but it's fraught with complexities th…

I spent a good few years studying Latin at one of the last few state-operated high schools in Australia to offer it. Later, I spent a decade in China.

Though I've been to Europe and did find the formality of Latin grammar useful for dalliances with Indian classical language, on the wohle I wish I could have learned Sanskrit or classical Chinese instead.

Europe is young and, in unpopular reality, rather monotonous. It just doesn't feel as philosophically broad-minded or historically interesting as Asia, where so much more has happened and continues to happen.

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#18

Post by yongjik »

Renaud wrote: post #4

Certainly won't happen anytime soon. English is certainly the lingua-franca of the modern world and will probably stay that way for a while. While mastering English is hard, you can get quite far with a modicum of English. Latin is an extremely important language and we should keep teaching it as a large portion of the grammar and vocabulary of Europe's languages derives from it, but it's fraught with complexities th…

I agree with your main point, but you're making an unfair comparison. If Latin were an internationally popular language alive today, then I imagine you could also get quite far with bits of broken Latin.

Also, if you think English isn't "fraught with complexities that make it really hard to master", I know an entire nation made (mostly) of people who've been learning English since twelve and still failing miserably at basic reading comprehension...

Re: Caveat Emptor: Lovers of Latin Try to Sell a Dead Tongue

#20

Post by digitalengineer »

The use of Latin would do great damage to the European dream of unity. There's already a great distance between those who (are suppose to) represent the European population and the European citizens themselves. If they started using their own language it'd be like the old days where one could only come close to god via the church because the bible was written in Latin, a language only the men of the church understood. Controlling the language meant great power (as Martin Luther found out when he translated the bible so common man could read it).
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