Live data from Hacker News

The fight against sexism is not a free pass

antirez.com

41–50 of 140 posts

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. No one was sexist here. A diff of 3 characters on something wholly non-code or operations-related is hardly a change that requires attention.

He deliberately made the pronoun masculine for no apparent reason other than to stick it in women's eyes.

No he didn't. He reversed a commit that didn't follow standard procedures.

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. No one was sexist here. A diff of 3 characters on something wholly non-code or operations-related is hardly a change that requires attention.

He deliberately made the pronoun masculine for no apparent reason other than to stick it in women's eyes.

You should probably go back and read his commit message before making assumptions.

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. No one was sexist here. A diff of 3 characters on something wholly non-code or operations-related is hardly a change that requires attention.

He deliberately made the pronoun masculine for no apparent reason other than to stick it in women's eyes.

This is from a commit he did over a year ago:

https://github.com/alex/libuv/commit/3977d1b36c689767cc0db50...

Had nothing to do with using a masculine pronoun, it was to document how the code works.

Hes not a native english speaker either, so you should be glad that he wrote the comment in english for us that don't speak dutch :)

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#44
post #15

I'm sorry to invoke Godwin's law on this, but this is beyond absurd... Stating that defending that pronouns should be gendered is a fireable offense is more than just ridiculous political correctness, it's criminalizing opinion. It's the Holy Inquisition.

You can only invoke Godwin's law after someone else draws a comparison to the Nazis. You cannot invoke it on yourself prior to drawing a comparison to the Holy Inquisition, no matter how far beyond absurdity the situation may be.

I didn't expect to find humor in this thread, but here I am, laughing. So that's nice.

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#45
post #15

I'm sorry to invoke Godwin's law on this, but this is beyond absurd... Stating that defending that pronouns should be gendered is a fireable offense is more than just ridiculous political correctness, it's criminalizing opinion. It's the Holy Inquisition.

You can only invoke Godwin's law after someone else draws a comparison to the Nazis. You cannot invoke it on yourself prior to drawing a comparison to the Holy Inquisition, no matter how far beyond absurdity the situation may be.

The shrill objections that people raise when people draw parallels between things in history that are not strictly equal in all respects ("Do you really think this is equivalent to torturing people for being jewish?!?") are the same.

It is a shame that people have to preface legitimate comparisons to historic events with these sort of disclaimers.

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#46
"to reject a pull request that eliminates a gendered pronoun on the principle that pronouns should in fact be gendered would constitute a fireable offense" - nice place to work, congrats Joyent employees.

There's one practical problem with this approach though. If you start aligning everyone against a single doctrine and prosecute deviations, you'll quickly lose the ability to innovate. Start sending people to jail for having an opinion different from the Central Committee of the Communist Party and you'll end up not only with engineers in jail but with an industry 100% copied from someone else. Ask me how I know.

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#47

We'll run out of tar and feathers at this rate.

I kind of hoped we'd run out of sexists first.

Probably not, which is why it is vitally important to choose battles well. This situation seems to be being sorted reasonably well without the incursion of a baying horde looking for the guys head, or Joyent's head for that matter.

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#48
post #18

So far as I can tell, it's a fundamental of all forms of feminism (though especially radical feminism) that yes, everyone must make fighting sexism and supporting feminism their #1 priority, over and above the actual goals of whatever businesses or groups they're involved in, and that anyone who doesn't is a women hater. You get stuff like Atheism+, where a bunch of feminist activists went into the atheist movement a…

What does this whole thing have to do with radical feminism?

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#49
post #29

Nice job by Joyent. A lot of people will feel that this firing is an overreaction, but this is how civil rights movements work. You inconvenience the apathetic until they realize that apathy is as unacceptable as anything else. This is the only way it can change the developer community. Don't be a sexist and you won't run into this problem.

I hear you, but not being sexist can be pretty hard. I always felt that obviously, I wasn't sexist: I like working with women in the workplace, I always figured we make software for everyone so it's probably best if everyone makes software, and so on. I've been fortunate to have female co-workers who I felt made terrific colleagues, both skills-wise and socially. And yet one day one of them pulled me aside and explai…

I read a study once that said people who think they have no bias are the most behaviorally biased people of all.

Re: The fight against sexism is not a free pass

#50
post #35
post #26

Oh dear God. This is what we've sunk to? Saying we'd love to fire some "asshole" because he chose not to pull a pull request changing two instances of "him" to "they"? First, let me get it out of the way that I actually agree with the pull request. In this day, the personal pronoun "they" makes a more inclusive pronoun that just "him". Zed Shaw's suggestion of "you" is also a good alternative, particularly if you're…

I am just afraid there is going to be a retaliation against Ben. Remember what happened early this year at PyCon? Honestly, people need to stop acting like animals and stop bash him out. There are other contributors who can rule him out and we don't need those hash comments. Sexism is not about woman. When we call a country "she" we are making a female description of what a country is: nurturing her citizens. And sin…

Any reaction should be towards Joyent - not Ben.

What we have learnt is that the CEO of Joyent is prone to over-reacting and will fire people over nothing. So don't work for Joyent as there is no job security when you can be fired for a commit.

If you're a Joyent employee and you're not part of the Node.js groupie love-fest, better spend your holiday looking for a new job. Imagine a lunch-time conversation over the Affordable Care Act, would you dare voice your opinion?

To Bryan Cantrill, just because you're the boss doesn't mean you can fire at will, without cause, and ruin a programmer's life, unless that is you like the idea of a lawsuit and getting into the press since literally nobody is talking about Joyent and SmartOS anymore.

Post reply on HN