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How Software Companies Die (1995)

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Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#51

Post by narag »

Udo wrote: post #43
ColinWright wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did have, but it's been permanently disabled. I got too much grief over it. I have scripts to assist, but all these posts are "by hand". They don't take much time, and occasionally during the search and confirmation phase I stumble across other things that are interesting, so there is some reward.

I think it makes sense to have that bot as an actual separate site feature. Personally, it's not something I'd want to be mixed in with normal comments.

What about offering it as a service to the submitter from the submission page?

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#52

Post by PhasmaFelis »

nashashmi wrote: post #29
ghshephard wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference here, is that it's not the 1800s, and OSC continues to not just hold, but evangelize his hateful positions. See: http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-hypocrites.html for one of the reasons people find him repellent. Choice quote (after he had a chance to reflect on the response to his essay): "...it has become clearer and clearer to me, since writing this essay, that gay activism as a movement is no long…

How is that wrong again?! It is true that they are trying to gain legitimacy. It is no longer about rights but now it is about acceptance. The time has come now to the point where anyone who holds an anti-gay position is criticized and/or boycotted. Now we have not just reached giving gays equal treatment but making changes to accommodate a different lifestyle. The second point OSC makes is sourced in a discomfort fr…

> The time has come now to the point where anyone who holds an anti-gay position is criticized and/or boycotted.

"The time has come now to the point where anyone who holds an anti-black position is criticized and/or boycotted."

"The time has come now to the point where anyone who holds an anti-woman position is criticized and/or boycotted."

"The time has come now to the point where anyone who holds an anti-Jew position is criticized and/or boycotted."

Yes. Yes it has.

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#53

Post by PhasmaFelis »

gscott wrote: post #9
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #2

We all know that OSC is a horrible bigot, right? I feel like any sort of fatherly advice he emits needs to be suffixed with "...unless you're gay, then you should be in prison."

You have some heavy duty hate going on to dislike everything a person does because of their opinion on another matter.

Yeah, funny how it colors your opinion of a guy's reliability when he wants you and your friends thrown in prison as a warning to others. Crazy, I know!

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#54

Post by hmsimha »

Jare wrote: post #26
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #6

Some context. According to [1], the text is from the March 1995 issue "Windows Sources" magazine [2]. Does Card have any experience of business or software? [1] http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=DeveloperBees [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Sources

His book Lost Boys contains pretty fair descriptions of the videogame industry and development processes in the 80's, and he did a good amount of videogames writing in the 90's, including Monkey Island, The Dig and the disaster that was Neohunter.

I was going to mention Lost Boys. That book provided my first exposure to an account of the life of a computer programmer, even if the character was fictional.

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#55

Post by Udo »

adamnemecek wrote: post #50
Udo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that "we" always practiced the methodology of penalizing people with beliefs that were perceived as abnormal. Case in point: Alan Turing. However, this is not the level I want this considered at. Instead, I invite you to look at what you're comparing here. There is OSC's philosophy of hatred on one side, and Alan Turing's sexuality on the other (which was never about harming anyone and hence could alw…

You are trying to retrofit current sense of morality onto the sense held by people in the past. What if people during Turing's time actually thought that homosexual behavior was unethical (which I think is not too far from the truth)?

> What if people during Turing's time actually thought that homosexual behavior was unethical (which I think is not too far from the truth)?

First of all, I assert being gay is not unethical. And it never was. Sure, it was considered amoral, but that's not the same. Could you elaborate on why you think an ethical argument could be constructed in favor of being militantly anti-gay?

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#56

Post by andyjohnson0 »

ankitml wrote: post #48
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't about software; its about people who happen to working in the software industry. And the problem with people like Card is that their prejudices are a sign that their understanding of other people, and their capability for basic human empathy, is just fundamentally broken. Hence the lazy, stereotyped description of "coders", "players", etc. in the piece. I do agree that we shouldn't ignore everything…

He may have better understanding of people who make software. His understanding of gays doesnt have a problem, his perception of gays has. According to his twisted value system they are bad people. However his understanding of software people is not clouded by his values. In any case I am only trying to defend him because I saw people just read his name from article title and decided they should not read it full. So…

"He may have better understanding of people who make software. His understanding of gays doesnt have a problem, his perception of gays has."

There is no such thing as "software people". Just as there is no such thing "farmer people", "construction people", or "aeroplane people". They are all just people. And I don't understand your understanding/perception distinction.

"So please go ahead read what he has to say, then decide if he is correct or not instead of judging article beforehand."

My comment was posted over ninety minutes after reading the article. I really don't know on what basis you assumed otherwise.

And I'm away to fight the android emulator now.

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#57

Post by barking »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #44
barking wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should consider what you just wrote and and what it says about you.

It says that I believe a man who holds violent* and irrational hatred in his heart is unlikely to be a rational thinker, and his words on any subject should be give careful consideration. I stand by that, thank you very much. *Yes, violent. Card has literally advocated armed revolution against any federal government that legalizes gay marriage.

So what conclusions did you come to after 'carefully considering' the linked article that required you to openly denounce the man.

Or is it the case that you feel it necessary to denounce him whenever his name is mentioned?

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#58

Post by yummyfajitas »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #49
yummyfajitas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your characterization of OSC is incorrect. He only believes sodomy laws should be used carefully to make sure people don't "shake the confidence of the community", and that most homosexuals should not be jailed. http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-hypocrites.html I don't agree with OSC, and I doubt he'd like me very much due to my propensity for casual sex and my desire to abolish state marriage. That said, I do share…

> Your characterization of OSC is incorrect. He only believes sodomy laws should be used carefully to make sure people don't "shake the confidence of the community", and that most homosexuals should not be jailed. Ah. Yes. My mistake. He thinks only the uppity gay folks should be thrown in prison in order to properly terrorize the rest, who can remain free as long as they understand how disgusting and shameful they a…

The communist blacklist was merely a list of communists published the Hollywood Reporter, making studios aware of their feelings so studios could make their own decisions. It later expanded to include other communists, who's feelings the studios were made aware of in order to make their own decision.

I didn't call you an oppressor. I agree with you that Card, much like the Communists in Hollywood, is an advocate of oppression.

But I'm still curious - in addition to making everyone aware of anti-gay opinions to make their own decision, do you also favor making everyone aware of pro-communist opinions to make their own decision? Perhaps distributing photos of anyone wearing a Che t-shirts so others can make their own decisions [1]?

(I'm not asking why you don't do it yourself, obviously you pick your own personal causes. I'm simply asking whether you would support others doing it, and if not, why not.)

[1] Yes, I'm being very naughty mentioning Che, the guy who put gays into communist labor camps. Am I citing him as a homophobe or a communist? Who knows?

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#59

Post by theorique »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #2

We all know that OSC is a horrible bigot, right? I feel like any sort of fatherly advice he emits needs to be suffixed with "...unless you're gay, then you should be in prison."

Yes, the left never shuts up about it.

I deplore his views, and Ender's Game was still a great book.

People are complex.

Re: How Software Companies Die (1995)

#60

Post by jmcgough »

Jare wrote: post #26
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #6

Some context. According to [1], the text is from the March 1995 issue "Windows Sources" magazine [2]. Does Card have any experience of business or software? [1] http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=DeveloperBees [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Sources

His book Lost Boys contains pretty fair descriptions of the videogame industry and development processes in the 80's, and he did a good amount of videogames writing in the 90's, including Monkey Island, The Dig and the disaster that was Neohunter.

What was disastrous about Neohunter? It looks like an interesting idea, but other than the old box art (with description of the game) I can't really find any information on it.
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