CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#101

Post by fnordfnordfnord » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 2:48 AM UTC

haberman wrote: post #56

gcb1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let me see... google and the open handset aliance advertise an open source OS, that you cant install without voiding warranties and bending to proprietary radio and firmware code. just like pc manufacturers of the 80/90s (bios was reverse engineered from IBM and then tightly controled by ami. it only looked slighly open because IBM was much more closed. same with android standing next to apple.

> that you cant install without voiding warranties So you think that a user should be able install an OS that bricks their phone and still have the phone still covered by warranty? How does that make sense? Is this people's expectation of Google, that if they don't give you whatever you want (at their own expense) then they are like 90s Microsoft?

Any user action that is completely reversible, like installing software, should not render the warranty void.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#102

Post by fpgeek » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 2:51 AM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #44

VikingCoder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always about the end user? Like when Apple said that all Apps needed to be originally written in their crappy language, and that you could not cross-compile to it? That had literally nothing to do with the end user, and everything to do with trying to enforce a monopoly.

Apple said that, but never enforced it. So that piece of policy was more a fallback (i.e., "something we can point at if an app happens to do something we didn't anticipate"). And it was eventually removed (hence my comment about Apple lessening some of their control over time). Most of Apple's decisions are about the end user, often to the detriment of the developer. Mandatory app review, Apple deals entirely with c…

> Most of Apple's decisions are about the end user, often to the detriment of the developer. Mandatory app review, Apple deals entirely with customers, unified in-app purchase interface.

Please explain to me how Apple effectively blocking users of Amazon apps from having the in-app stores (ebooks, mp3s, etc.) they have on Android is in the user's interest. When you're done with that, do the same for Apple's effectively blocking in-app links to Amazon's web stores. From where I'm sitting, that's all about protecting Apple's interests their competing stores, interests of their users be damned.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#103

Post by interpol_p » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 2:54 AM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #10

interpol_p wrote: post #8

While I view this move as hypocritical of Google, it does feel like it's in their customers' best interest. Think about it from a less technical perspective: I can install an app from the official Google Play store that voids my warranty . They can't have that on their public facing store. Google wants users to install apps, they don't want them to be afraid of voiding their warranty. It's interesting to see how thin…

The app doesn't void your warranty. It encourages you to perform further actions that may void your warranty. Major difference. The article is clear that Google admits the app itself is not harmful.

I don't think that's a good enough distinction. If it's from the official store it should not even indirectly lead to harming your device or warranty.

If an app tells you to throw your phone in the air — and I was both the phone hardware manufacturer and app store curator — I wouldn't allow it on my store either. It's going to increase customer complaints.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#104

Post by mushroomhead » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 2:59 AM UTC

Unlike appstore where most accounts is password protected on download because of credit card associated with their account. Most android phone user don't set such restriction, and what truth is most kids just download whatever they saw on playstore. Google did the right thing to remove a dangerous app with potential to break your device.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#105

Post by derleth » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 3:00 AM UTC

naner wrote: post #28

With the CM Installer in the play store many lay-people started using it, rendering their phones unusable[1] when any little issue cropped up. Also the process wasn't foolproof even for people capable of dealing with technical issues[2]. It isn't polished enough to go in the play store IMO. I don't know WTF the cyanogenmod team was thinking, non-technical people messing with CM will just lead to negative press. 1: ht…

And, of course, CM still phones home by default, which is malware behavior, and not something we need to condone.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#106

Post by derleth » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 3:02 AM UTC

g8oz wrote: post #15

It seems like no matter how blatantly Google carries out it's updated "Microsoft from the 1990's" act there will be a coterie of apologists on HN explaining away it's actions. The Cold War provided an appropriate label for this crowd: "useful idiots".

CM phones home by default. There's a word for software like that: Malware. The Play Store shouldn't have malware.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#107

Post by comex » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 3:07 AM UTC

Touche wrote: post #58

coldtea wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That had literally nothing to do with the end user, and everything to do with trying to enforce a monopoly. That word, monopoly. I don't think it means what you think it means. What they were trying to enforce was a common programming language for all apps that they could improve in tandem with the OS, so they wouldn't be held hostage in the future to be backwards compatible to some popular runtime (like Flash once…

Objective C is so good that no one ever chooses to use it outside of Apple world.

This is the same as criticizing C# because nobody uses it outside of Microsoft world - or Java on mobile because nobody uses it outside of Android.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#108

Post by fpgeek » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 3:08 AM UTC

giovannibajo1 wrote: post #80

veemjeem wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is rare to "brick" your PC by installing linux/windows. Phones are different because their input/output interfaces are limited to a single usb port, and in many cases that usb port doesn't even support host mode. Technically the phone isn't really bricked, but there's no way for a normal user to fix it without cracking open the phone to attach a jtag. If PCs in the 1980's could be destroyed simply by improperly in…

Sounds like bad design though. It's normal for embedded devices to have a non upgradable bootloader that can always be triggered at boot and is able to reflash a pristine copy of the original firmware wiping whatever was later written. iOS does that (see DFU mode), and all embedded devices I design at work do the same. Why an Android device shouldn't? Apple devices are nominally warranty voided when you jailbreak the…

Android devices have similar failsafes (e.g. recovery, fastboot mode), but since they're part of the infrastructure that validates that you're only flashing authorized changes, you are often working around them when you modify your device.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#109

Post by fidotron » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 3:15 AM UTC

asdfaoeu wrote: post #4

fidotron wrote: post #3

At this point it really looks like Google have zero interest in seeing Android improve, beyond ensuring it stays superficially in line with iOS or Windows Phone, and will use whatever means necessary to ensure no one else does it while desperately trying to shoe horn irrelevant features into Chrome in an effort to reach feature parity. The clause about no forking with the SDK is probably going to rear its head in ang…

This is complete bullshit, they've improved the runtime and performance in the most recent version among other things. It's not at all surprising that this application was removed would you expect to see an install Ubuntu application in the Mac or Windows app stores?

It's not bullshit at all. The bulk of what development they're doing is now not in AOSP, but things like the Hangouts app or Play Services. The other changes are increasingly minor while stability on their own Nexus devices has gone down.

For example, were you to improve the Android stock messaging app they are completely within their rights to prevent you pushing it back into AOSP, and worse, if you make a breaking change and distribute as an "improved Android" you could be classed as a fork, which violates the T&C of the SDK. Google having this veto to artificially hold back Android prevents other players from producing interesting forks of it. Cyanogenmod will be perceived as a long term threat, and so they will progressively up the stakes in order to make life difficult, but they're starting with stuff which is easier to justify. Once they've started the fanboys will find it much harder to change their tune.

You can see what's been going on by their staff situation.

Re: CyanogenMod Installer Application Removed from Play Store

#110

Post by ceol » Thu, Nov 28, 2013, 3:17 AM UTC

fpgeek wrote: post #102

interpol_p wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple said that, but never enforced it. So that piece of policy was more a fallback (i.e., "something we can point at if an app happens to do something we didn't anticipate"). And it was eventually removed (hence my comment about Apple lessening some of their control over time). Most of Apple's decisions are about the end user, often to the detriment of the developer. Mandatory app review, Apple deals entirely with c…

> Most of Apple's decisions are about the end user, often to the detriment of the developer. Mandatory app review, Apple deals entirely with customers, unified in-app purchase interface. Please explain to me how Apple effectively blocking users of Amazon apps from having the in-app stores (ebooks, mp3s, etc.) they have on Android is in the user's interest. When you're done with that, do the same for Apple's effective…

Conjecture: End users can be confident everything that they purchase in an app is tied to their iTunes account. Purchasing an Amazon e-book using the Kindle app means the end user — who is not the most tech-savvy — needs to have an Amazon account and they need to be aware that anything purchased in the Kindle app (and only the Kindle app) doesn't get associated with their iTunes account, which is a different behavior than every other app on the App Store.

Of course, the 30% cut that Apple wanted to take most likely had something to do with it, but there is a good reason to forbid developers from implementing their own in-app purchases.