Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
31–40 of 95 posts
Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#32This is a fantastic article, and it highlights some of my worries as a Bitcoin lover. It would seem the only times one would use Bitcoin over USD is if a Bitcoin-specific benefit (for instance, anonymity when buying illegal goods) outweighs the cost of using BTC over USD. In a deflationary economy I can't fathom why someone would spend BTC over USD buying a legal good, except maybe for the kick of having spent Bitcoi…
If the deflation ever becomes stable(ish), the increase of value can be accounted for in the price, as sellers will have a reason to prefer BTC and offer discounts (not to mention eliminating all those 2.9% credit card fees). We already buy all sorts of optional goods, even if those goods will depreciate compared to letting money sit in a bank account and accrue interest.
What is important is NOT deflation vs inflation, but to keep that value _stable_. USD inflates at a rate of 3% year over year, so we can compare investment vehicles against the rate of inflation and see whether or not they are good deals.
But since BTC is extremely volatile, its impossible to use it as a unit of value. Until it settles down and becomes predictable, it will become impossible to form a "BTC Economy".
Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#33Obviously I don't know much about economics but I can't see why this wouldn't work. Why does bitcoin have a hard limit on the total number of bitcoins produced?
Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#34Don't we the customers and the capitalists already have the same situation with dollars? I could either buy a PS4 or I could buy some penny stocks. I could either try my luck with a startup or I could put that seed money into a CD or a fairly low risk index fund. So it all depends on the actual realistic rate of deflation if Bitcoin ever reaches widespread use.
Assuming that it reaches widespread use ignores the chicken and egg problem that producers of goods will not want to use it if the depreciation is too high. Currently you can spend bitcoins mainly through intermediaries and various online purchases that quickly convert the BTC to some fiat currency. I.e. pay a company for server space, they quickly turn it into dollars or euros to pay their electricity and employees.
But to be a legitimate, full fledged currency it will need to both be a reliable store of value (low volatility) and be useful for producers (minimal depreciation). It has neither right now, and I personally don't see a path from the present state to that ideal equilibrium.
Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#35> why buy something today if it will be cheaper tomorrow? Because you want it today. The "fear of deflation" argument is now pervasive among monetary theorists. The argument goes that if people know that prices will fall, they will indefinitely delay all economic activity. This ignores the time preference aspect of economic decision making. For example, I will buy my cup of coffee today rather than wait a day or week…
Your analogy is flawed and completely unrealistic. BitCoin's fluctuations are insane, we're talking about ~ 15 times compared to last year. Would you seriously use a bitcoin to buy a cup of coffee today ?
Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#36 After some careful calculation, you determine that it will
cost you 1 BTC to produce, market, and sell a single widget,
and that it is only worth your effort if you can sell each
widget for 2 BTC, a handsome 100% margin.
I stopped reading right here.Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#37The 'depreciating currency is a problem' argument is true for the existence of any asset having a higher yield than your widget factory. Why wouldn't you invest in that high yield asset instead of your widget factory? In this way, you can view _any_ appreciating asset as a reference unit of account. It is just as easy to see your egg and milk purchases as units of the high yield asset and delay your purchases for the…
If you think of or use Bitcoin as an asset, you immediately nullify any comparisons with currencies because the two serve different purposes. You could, in principle, buy a house with, say, 10 cars. But that is not done in practice because the market for asset-to-asset transactions (bartering) is small and illiquid.
If you are willing to ignore Bitcoin's purpose as a currency and only use it as an asset, you need to consider what will drive its value in the long term. For most things, that value is just a function of the supply and the demand. While the supply of Bitcoins is fixed and the demand for items that can be bought in BTC is increasing, what will happen when everyone realizes that BTC is a better asset than currency and stops using it for transactions? It will become illiquid, and illiquid assets only have their tangible value. Since Bitcoin isn't tangible like a house or a car, its tangible value is zero.
For the record, I think Bitcoin has potential, but not with the present economic dynamics.
Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#38A few thoughts: 1) Conversely, why would I want to keep my wealth denominated in a currency that loses 2% value every year? 2) Supposing 90% annual deflation forever, as this article does, is disingenuous. Bitcoin is currently a 5 year old technology, and of course it will have periods of significant volatility. In the long run, bitcoin will stabilize, and deflation will be on the rate of global economic growth, curr…
Currencies are stable (and losing 2% value per year) because governments actively manage the supply of money to keep it stable in the face of very volatile demand (caused by what Keynes called "animal spirits". Since demand will fluctuate Bitcoin will fluctuate wildly for the foreseeable future like the value of gold has done and is doing. Bitcoin will never be a stable, safe place to store wealth for that reason. It…
...fluctuate wildly for the foreseeable future like the
value of gold has done and is doing.
The value of gold as measured how? Do you mean the price of gold in USD? Isn't that more indicative of the price of USD, and/or the price of cash vs. commodities?Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#39> why buy something today if it will be cheaper tomorrow? Because you want it today. The "fear of deflation" argument is now pervasive among monetary theorists. The argument goes that if people know that prices will fall, they will indefinitely delay all economic activity. This ignores the time preference aspect of economic decision making. For example, I will buy my cup of coffee today rather than wait a day or week…
Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity
#40A few thoughts: 1) Conversely, why would I want to keep my wealth denominated in a currency that loses 2% value every year? 2) Supposing 90% annual deflation forever, as this article does, is disingenuous. Bitcoin is currently a 5 year old technology, and of course it will have periods of significant volatility. In the long run, bitcoin will stabilize, and deflation will be on the rate of global economic growth, curr…
Because you have no choice. Currencies are imposed by a ruling power (in our case the government) by force. When you choose your currency is usually in form of asset. But you can not pay your taxes in gold. Consequently you can not live in the USA without USD and in Europe without EUR.
2) Supposing 90% annual deflation forever, as this article does, is disingenuous. Bitcoin is currently a 5 year old technology, and of course it will have periods of significant volatility. In the long run, bitcoin will stabilize, and deflation will be on the rate of global economic growth, currently estimated at around 2%
That’s speculation, might be correct. No one knows.
3) In the long run, people could keep their wealth denominated in bitcoin, and spend dollars. There you have the best of both worlds: your wealth storage is deflationary, and your spending currency is inflationary.
As that’s exactly how it should be. Currencies are inflationary to induce consumer spending more today.
edit: 4) Perhaps most significantly, remember that bitcoins and dollars are exchangeable at any point in time. Any dollar you spend on goods/services is a dollar you could have spent on bitcoin. Have bitcoin enthusiasts completely stopped spending dollars on goods/services?
Did they ever do that? Bitcoin enthusiasts never used bitcoin for buying services. BTC buys you anonymity where is required that’s a revolutionary quality for a currency to have. But other than that, bitcoin has nothing to offer compared to fiat currency for daily transactions. Changing money from BTC to USD (and vice-versa) is not enough straight forward, as of today, to allow the majority of the population to use it. If I give you 10 BTC today, you need days to turn them to USD, while if I give you EUR, you needs hours probably maybe minutes.