Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

computationallyendowed.com

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#21
"There is a limited supply of bitcoins". Not really true. Bitcoin is infinitely divisible (unlike a dollar). Having only 21 million is not an issue, because pretty soon we will be talking about micro bitcoins as the base unit of transactions.

And then there will be another Bitcoin competitor (Litecoin). And another. And another. We will never run out of bitcoin and equivalent products.

Stabilizing the price is definitely an issue. Can it be stabilized?

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#22
> why buy something today if it will be cheaper tomorrow?

Because you want it today.

The "fear of deflation" argument is now pervasive among monetary theorists. The argument goes that if people know that prices will fall, they will indefinitely delay all economic activity.

This ignores the time preference aspect of economic decision making. For example, I will buy my cup of coffee today rather than wait a day or week to save 1% because I WANT IT TODAY.

We've seen periods of significant economic growth coupled with falling prices.

Before going fiat, we had slowly falling prices in our nation's period of largest economic growth, the late 1800's.

"Wholesale prices dropped 47 percent from 1879 to 1900 and economic growth averaged nearly four percent per year." - Ron Paul

http://dailyreckoning.com/the-mythical-merits-of-paper-money...

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#23
post #14
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would deflation converge to the rate of global economic growth? I'd think that the opposite tends to be true, eg. the inflation is often correlated with growth.

Suppose the only good in the world is apples, and the only currency is bitcoins. There are 21 million bitcoins in existence. In 2013, we produce 21 million apples, so we could say that each bitcoin is worth 1 apple. In 2014, we produce 42 million apples, which is 100% annual GDP growth. Each bitcoin is worth 2 apples, which is a 100% appreciation in the value of the currency, aka. deflation.

Just to explain why growth => inflation, frequently:

Grow the (effective) money supply with lending and deposit accounts, and apples / dollar falls. When things are growing, people know there is money to be made, and so expect they are more likely to be paid back, and so lend more freely.

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#24
post #3

A few thoughts: 1) Conversely, why would I want to keep my wealth denominated in a currency that loses 2% value every year? 2) Supposing 90% annual deflation forever, as this article does, is disingenuous. Bitcoin is currently a 5 year old technology, and of course it will have periods of significant volatility. In the long run, bitcoin will stabilize, and deflation will be on the rate of global economic growth, curr…

Currencies are stable (and losing 2% value per year) because governments actively manage the supply of money to keep it stable in the face of very volatile demand (caused by what Keynes called "animal spirits". Since demand will fluctuate Bitcoin will fluctuate wildly for the foreseeable future like the value of gold has done and is doing. Bitcoin will never be a stable, safe place to store wealth for that reason. It…

The government could keep currency stable by simply not permitting more to be created. Done. That's not the intention. The intention is to make sure the banks can loan out as much as they want when they want and then get bailed out when crashes occur.

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#25
The 'why buy something today if it will be cheaper tomorrow?' was never very convincing to me. There are many markets, look for example at computer hardware, where delaying a couple months can get you huge savings. And yet people buy new hardware, all the time.

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#26
post #10

The 'depreciating currency is a problem' argument is true for the existence of any asset having a higher yield than your widget factory. Why wouldn't you invest in that high yield asset instead of your widget factory? In this way, you can view _any_ appreciating asset as a reference unit of account. It is just as easy to see your egg and milk purchases as units of the high yield asset and delay your purchases for the…

I'm not sure whether this winds up being meaningful, but a difference is that more hops means more transaction costs.

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#27

> why buy something today if it will be cheaper tomorrow? Because you want it today. The "fear of deflation" argument is now pervasive among monetary theorists. The argument goes that if people know that prices will fall, they will indefinitely delay all economic activity. This ignores the time preference aspect of economic decision making. For example, I will buy my cup of coffee today rather than wait a day or week…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#28

> why buy something today if it will be cheaper tomorrow? Because you want it today. The "fear of deflation" argument is now pervasive among monetary theorists. The argument goes that if people know that prices will fall, they will indefinitely delay all economic activity. This ignores the time preference aspect of economic decision making. For example, I will buy my cup of coffee today rather than wait a day or week…

Your analogy is flawed and completely unrealistic. BitCoin's fluctuations are insane, we're talking about ~ 15 times compared to last year. Would you seriously use a bitcoin to buy a cup of coffee today ?

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#29
post #3

A few thoughts: 1) Conversely, why would I want to keep my wealth denominated in a currency that loses 2% value every year? 2) Supposing 90% annual deflation forever, as this article does, is disingenuous. Bitcoin is currently a 5 year old technology, and of course it will have periods of significant volatility. In the long run, bitcoin will stabilize, and deflation will be on the rate of global economic growth, curr…

Author here. First, regarding point 2, I use a period of time in which 90% deflation occurred (from the perspective of bitcoin-holders) and consider what affect that would have on profits in a bitcoin-only economy. I do not assume 90% annual deflation forever, though I do suggest that deflation will continue. If anything I wrote seems to suggest deflation will continue at a rate 90% forever, please point out where and I will correct it.

Re: Bitcoin Deflation and Economic Activity

#30

> why buy something today if it will be cheaper tomorrow? Because you want it today. The "fear of deflation" argument is now pervasive among monetary theorists. The argument goes that if people know that prices will fall, they will indefinitely delay all economic activity. This ignores the time preference aspect of economic decision making. For example, I will buy my cup of coffee today rather than wait a day or week…

What's your opinion on inflation as an economic driver? I'm also a fan of deflation (as I want to save my money) but the Federal Reserve and other central banks (Japan being a notable example) are advocating for higher inflation, which begs another question:

Are they right and both deflation and inflation can supply economic growth? If so, does that mean another factor is the main proponent for growth?

Post reply on HN