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On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

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81–90 of 187 posts

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#81

I'm not qualified to discern the quality of most of this post, but its tone disturbed me, and I agree that I find most of the ad hominem stuff really distasteful.

At no point does he structure his argument thus: {Khoo, Penny Arcade, anyone} is {immoral, stupid, lacking in some way} therefore they are wrong. Absent that, there is no ad hominem . What you have is a discussion of the personalities involved in the enterprise and a speculation as to their motives, methods and the means available to them. All of that is relevant in answering some questions which need to be asked of…

Actually, the post is {Khoo, Penny Arcade} are shrewd business folks that are looking for a sucker. Don't be the sucker. With lots of exposition on why this author feels they are looking for a sucker.

Hell, we don't even really know what the compensation is for this position. Could be they are willing to pay upwards of 200k. Am I just missing where they are saying this will pay terribly? I saw they are not "money oriented" which is probably true since they have more of it than they can really reason about. Better, they have front row access to what they dreamed about as kids. They don't need the money anymore.

I think something a lot of folks from companies that aren't 20ish people are missing is that they are effectively auditioning someone to come be part of a very close knit crew. Imagine the postings for a recurring role on {insert popular tv show}.

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#82

I really scoff at the notion that any sort of white collar programming job is exploitative. I know there is some controversy over interns in some industries (not tech), Wal-Mart workers, overseas child slaves, and other real problems in the workforce. But to call out Penny Arcade for what amounts to a very honest job listing, for one of the most high-paying jobs in the country and the world, is just absurd. So what i…

I understand the frustration with the disconnect between the particular complaint and far worse problems.

That said, if a rushed Bill Gates pays you $500 for a Starbucks coffee and you bring him instant coffee instead, it doesn't matter whether he drinks it: you still exploited him. These are all examples of exploitation, just of relative degree.

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#83
This job posting kinda reminds me of the mental calculus I did when deciding to work for Spümcø for a while. John Kricfalusi's studio did not pay well, and the work was gruelling - but you were working for John fucking Kricfalusi, the guy responsible for Ren and fucking Stimpy. And yeah, there was definite cachet in that. Even if you burnt out on the animation industry like I did, you were still gonna be able to draw rings around most people after a stint there. Working at Spümcø taught me a lot, and I think ultimately I am glad I made the trade of shitty pay with a demanding boss for a few years. I got paid in a hell of a post-graduate education from a man who changed the face of the animation industry, as well as in money.

But... you know, honestly, I think the closest thing to an industry-changing genius Penny Arcade has is Robert Khoo, and this job ain't gonna have you getting your hands dirty in such a way that lets you learn Khoo's ways.

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Break your leg, don't claim insurance, and have your car break down, and lose your job. Tell me about that safety net.

I guess I was right, it wasn't hyperbole, you actually believe it. At any rate: http://www.ssa.gov/disability/ I'm sure the reply will be that that isn't enough, so at least then we'll just be back to it being righteous hyperbole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Disability_Insu...

"a person qualifies for SSDI if: they have a physical or mental condition that prevents them from engaging in any "substantial gainful activity" ("SGA"), and the condition is expected to last at least 12 months or result in death, and they are under the age of 65, and generally, they have accumulated 20 social security credits in the last 10 years prior to the onset of disability"...

"Applicants may hire a lawyer to help them apply or appeal... Most SSDI applicants—about 90 percent according to the SSA—have a disability representative for their appeal"

"The Social Security Administration estimates that the initial benefits application will take 90 to 120 days, but in practice filings can take up to eight months to complete. The appeals process for denied filings can likewise take 90 days to well over a year to get a hearing, depending on caseloads."

"In 2013, the average monthly disability payment was $1,132 and highest on record was $2,533"

Is that something you would want to rely on?

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#85
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I was right, it wasn't hyperbole, you actually believe it. At any rate: http://www.ssa.gov/disability/ I'm sure the reply will be that that isn't enough, so at least then we'll just be back to it being righteous hyperbole.

If you think Social Security is a safety net, think again. Unless you are completely disabled you aren't going to see a dime from SSI. Anything that is 'short term' you are out of luck. Even cancer is considered 'short term'. A real safety net for disability would be something like what Aflac provides. I had a friend who slipped a disk in his back and was stuck on a couch for months until he had surgery. Fortunately…

> Unless you are completely disabled you aren't going to see a dime from SSI. Anything that is 'short term' you are out of luck. Even cancer is considered 'short term'.

Bullshit.

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#86
post #72
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite. Imagine you are a hiring manager (or perhaps you don't have to imagine). Would you make a candidate a higher offer seeing Penny Arcade on their CV? Then what is the cachet exactly?

I do run a software company, and I would much rather hire someone with Penny Arcade on their resume than, say, Oracle or something.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Either way, I would think that having Penny Arcade on a resume would be an interesting story but other than that I can't imagine their infrastructure being anything that would help a career. Penny Arcade is probably only slightly above a real estate office for complexity.

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#87
I think this job posting is running up against the difference between an employee and a partner.

This isn't really unique to software, so I'll use the example of the dying American family farm.

I grew up on a small farm, for most of the time it was owned by four men, all related by blood. They each individually took full responsibility for the business, and were never off the clock. If something needed doing -- planting a field, fixing a tractor, feeding livestock -- they got it done. They didn't quit working when the work was done, because the work was never done. They momentarily paused when they were too exhausted to continue. If there was an emergency at three AM -- livestock escaped, water main broken, building on fire -- they got out of bed and dealt with it without delay. They were partners.

Occasionally, mostly during harvest, these farmers employed a few farm hands. These farm hands were contracted to do a specific job, like buck hay. They bucked hay for a certain number hours, and then went home. If something went wrong outside their purview, like a tractor breaking down, they informed one of the four farmers, who dealt with it. If there was a disaster at three AM, they were not summoned. They were employees.

It would have been easy for these farmers to expect the farm hands to act like farmers. After all, the farmers worked all day and some nights, did anything that needed to be done. But the farmers were partners in their business, and the farm hands were employees. Expecting employees to behave like partners just makes you a bad boss.

I think it is important for a small business, when growing, to remember the difference between partners and employees, and if you're hiring employees -- and not adding a partner -- to remember to treat them as employees, and not expect them to act like a partner in a business they have no interest in.

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Break your leg, don't claim insurance, and have your car break down, and lose your job. Tell me about that safety net.

I guess I was right, it wasn't hyperbole, you actually believe it. At any rate: http://www.ssa.gov/disability/ I'm sure the reply will be that that isn't enough, so at least then we'll just be back to it being righteous hyperbole.

Can you explain how you believe the process of applying for disability because of a broken leg would go? And if possible, provide some kind of evidence?

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#89
post #62
post #7

I think the thing that frustrates me the most about it is: they’ll probably get a thousand applicants. A bunch of 25 year-old kids with a ton of talent and stars in their eyes are going to try to get this crap job for crap pay so they can work somewhere “cool” and feel like a part of something big. The Penny Arcade “machine” (their term) will roll on, making its millions of dollars while somehow retaining the “little…

The fact of the matter is that this sort of "cool but shitty" job is quite common in other industries (music, movies, advertising, politics, sports). At least in tech, these sorts of jobs don't involve giving sexual favors, so be thankful for that much.

There's an even closer analogy on hand, which is especially poignant with Penny Arcade - video games. Lots of kids enter the game industry and get chewed up and overworked and tolerate it because they love games.

Re: On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

#90
post #86
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do run a software company, and I would much rather hire someone with Penny Arcade on their resume than, say, Oracle or something.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Either way, I would think that having Penny Arcade on a resume would be an interesting story but other than that I can't imagine their infrastructure being anything that would help a career. Penny Arcade is probably only slightly above a real estate office for complexity.

Me thinks you have not seen the scope of their audience. This would be akin to having no respect for the Humble Bundle developers because it is just a tiny shop. I mean, only a few games every few weeks. :)
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