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Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

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Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#41

Post by potatolicious »

mlyang wrote: post #13

One important aspect of Bay Area wealth to keep in mind is that Silicon Valley has a very supportive entrepreneurial culture-- wealthy exited entrepreneurs generously funding seed rounds for up and coming startups, lending a hand to pull up those around them. The mentality of modesty and collaboration greatly detracts from the sort of dystopian and polarized picture this article paints.

> "lending a hand to pull up those around them. The mentality of modesty and collaboration greatly detracts from the sort of dystopian and polarized picture this article paints."

"Those around them" = those like themselves, who 99 times out of 100 aren't actually from around the Bay Area.

Hell, even the businesses supported by the Bay Area elite are not at all similar to those that already existed before. The wealthy exited entrepreneurs aren't lending a hand to pull up the taco stand or the nail salon, they are evicting them in favor of businesses they like better.

Which may simply be the natural order of things, but it's a far cry from this populist "floating all boats" story you're weaving.

More importantly, wealthy exited entrepreneurs are funding new generations of startups - but that's a far, far cry from "pulling up those around them". One of the things that really, really bothered me when living in the Bay Area was how the tech industry literally does not give one iota of mind to anyone who isn't in the tech industry.

The tech industry helps itself and lets the world go to shit around them. The tech industry builds gated garages instead of helping solve crime in their neighborhoods. They invest in bigger and fancier buses in which to transport their own kind, instead of helping solve transportation in their cities. Even innovations like Uber are priced in such a way that there may as well be a "techno-elites only, kthx" sign on the door.

It's only non-dystopian and non-polarized if you already have membership to the ol' boys club that is Silicon Valley, in which case the entrepreneurial community is indeed supportive and has each others' backs. If you aren't lucky enough to belong to this club though, you're shit out of luck, even if you live just down the street.

Which, now that I think of it, isn't that different from how East Coast Old Money works. Funny how we keep making fun of them.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#42

Post by stdgy »

epistasis wrote: post #5

The class divide is indeed huge, but I'm having trouble following some of the article's logic. The article seems to be saying that the upper class are the capitalists that have founded successful companies, and the middle class are all the engineers, and the lower class are the rest of society. A lot of the class divide seems to be most evident in housing costs. Where do these $1 million tract house valuations come f…

I believe the author would argue that these 'middle class' Valley engineers really aren't middle class at all, but rather upper class. They're likely up in the 95th percentile of earners. Though I struggle to come to terms with how to control for living costs and geographic inflationary trends. I would like to see an accounting of how wages across the employment spectrum are adjusted, as well.

In my mind, if wages for other forms of employment aren't similarly inflated, it makes a much stronger argument for a further bifurcated society.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#43

Post by userulluipeste »

conductr wrote: post #24

I get that this is a stark contrast and functions as a great example. But, isn't every place in America like this? Maybe I've lived in Texas too long but I see it when I travel too. The immigrant labor class allows even lower-middle class families to live like "rich people". A lot of people now use a cleaning person and who mows their own lawn anymore? In an economic sense, it's America's new version of slavery. Wher…

"I can't help but thinking that will create a passive acceptance of this societal structure"

Giving the fact that there are American activists trying to combat external social problems such as the Indian caste system, I can't help but laugh when I come to read something like this. Irony!

(+1 from me)

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#44

Post by dpritchett »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #37
UweSchmidt wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's true that anyone who could say "HTML" in 2001 was called a "programmer", then that year is not a good baseline for tech job statistics.

If it's true that anyone who can say "Ruby on Rails" in 2013 is called a "programmer"...

Ruby is an actual programming language that runs on most platforms, what's the problem? Do you have a specific flavor of Real Programming that you prefer?

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#45

Post by benched »

I have to think that it's always been this way in civilization. Some people figure out how to position themselves at the top where all the money and control is, a bunch of others can't figure out how to squeeze up there, but do figure out how to service the people at the top for scraps, and then there are the hoards who don't even know how to get into the game at all. I think of it as just mechanical positioning. It's exactly the same as if you sent a crowd of people running to touch a magic pillar. There'd be room for a few to reach the pillar, then a bunch who could see the pillar and imagine what it would like to be one of the ones touching it, then a mass of people on the outside, barely able to see it at all. The only difference in real life is that the crowd is structured by the flow of money, goods, and services, where the flow is wider at the middle.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#46

Post by cheesylard »

Living in the Silicon Valley after reading this article might sound awesome; but it's far from the truth.

I grew up there. I feel like I was deprived of a childhood. I moved away a couple of years ago and am never going back. You have nothing but sprawled out office parks, rich internet tycoons, a police force with nothing to do, helicopter parents, and soccer moms. The thing that topped it all off was the super competitive vibe amongst the peers and parents. I would not recommend living there under any circumstances.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#47

Post by meddlepal »

userulluipeste wrote: post #27
ominous_prime wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income does not increase the money supply, which would bring about inflation. There may be an increase in the general cost of living for many, but that's not inflation, and it wouldn't absorb the entirety of one's basic income.

It seems that "inflation" has an equivocal meaning here. I presume he meant that the purchasing power of the currency would diminish and it's not hard to imagine why. Look at housing - if the credit wouldn't be cheap (or if it wouldn't be available on a large scale), the houses have to have a price between the basic price (the combined cost of land plus house construction) and the price that the market can bear. Give…

Correct. This is what I meant.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#48

Post by el_tophero »

benched wrote: post #45

I have to think that it's always been this way in civilization. Some people figure out how to position themselves at the top where all the money and control is, a bunch of others can't figure out how to squeeze up there, but do figure out how to service the people at the top for scraps, and then there are the hoards who don't even know how to get into the game at all. I think of it as just mechanical positioning. It'…

I think the idea is that the valley has taken out the middle, leaving only the extraordinarily rich and the poor.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#49

Post by el_tophero »

conductr wrote: post #24

I get that this is a stark contrast and functions as a great example. But, isn't every place in America like this? Maybe I've lived in Texas too long but I see it when I travel too. The immigrant labor class allows even lower-middle class families to live like "rich people". A lot of people now use a cleaning person and who mows their own lawn anymore? In an economic sense, it's America's new version of slavery. Wher…

The rest of country has rich and poor areas, but most of it is 'middle class'. The idea is that in the Bay Area you're either paying ~$1M for a shack in a decent school area or you're in a slum.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#50

Post by el_tophero »

mlyang wrote: post #13

One important aspect of Bay Area wealth to keep in mind is that Silicon Valley has a very supportive entrepreneurial culture-- wealthy exited entrepreneurs generously funding seed rounds for up and coming startups, lending a hand to pull up those around them. The mentality of modesty and collaboration greatly detracts from the sort of dystopian and polarized picture this article paints.

Generously helping startups built by people already in the club, and with the intent that it makes the wealthy exited entrepreneurs even more money.
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