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Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

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Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#21

Post by seiji »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #17
nraynaud wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they are pointing the fact that as soon as West Coast got access to the power through money, they did what the East Coast did: protect themselves from the plebe and create a new nobility with barriers to entry instead of using it for greater motives than simple personal accumulation.

And this is exactly why SV is not anything revolutionary, despite the insistence of PG and co. There is no Golden Age, just a bunch of old guys accumulating wealth by exploiting youthful naivete by cranking out a steady stream of technological toys designed to hook us, rather than serve us.

I liked this sidenote in the article: "made their founders billionaires (New Economy founders typically retain large blocks of their own stock)"

Histoically, founders gave up most of their equity to investors. "A" round? Investors take 50% for $3 million and set aside another 20% for an employee pool. "B" round? The founders end up with 4% of the company.

I think pg helped everybody realize "Hey, us founders have the power here. We're not giving up shit. In fact, pay us out at each round too. We need to be millionaires sooner than any possible 5-year-out exit."

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#22

Post by rbanffy »

auggierose wrote: post #8

> Yes! Let them eat beans! Preferably in their apartments. No, seriously now. I've got a friend who 5 years ago decided that he needs "to straighten his life out", and now he has a huge house in SV and is lead engineer at Apple. That's really fine, and obviously not everyone can have such a life. And people will really have to look inside themselves, and ask themselves what it REALLY is they want. If they want status…

I believe a basic income would be a great idea, but it would have to be, in part, subsidized by increased taxes on the working population.

Another approach would be the 1:12 rule that Switzerland didn't adopt.[1]

1: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25076879

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#23

Post by riggins »

auggierose wrote: post #8

> Yes! Let them eat beans! Preferably in their apartments. No, seriously now. I've got a friend who 5 years ago decided that he needs "to straighten his life out", and now he has a huge house in SV and is lead engineer at Apple. That's really fine, and obviously not everyone can have such a life. And people will really have to look inside themselves, and ask themselves what it REALLY is they want. If they want status…

A solution to this dystopian future would be the basic income

I'm fascinated to see how philanthropic society will choose to be. Here's why. With the advent of robots I believe that something fundamental has changed. Elites, if they so choose, will not need to accommodate lower classes.

Previously, there had to be some sharing because elites still had to rely on other humans for policing and military. However, it seems like robots might cut that connection. What will happen when elites feel like they don't need a large part of the population? Will they be altruistic?

I don't know. Personally I'm pretty cynical and think we're heading for a future that's both more egalitarian and dystopian. The internet will give people a similar opportunity to succeed but those who do succeed won't be charitable to those who don't.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#24

Post by conductr »

I get that this is a stark contrast and functions as a great example. But, isn't every place in America like this?

Maybe I've lived in Texas too long but I see it when I travel too. The immigrant labor class allows even lower-middle class families to live like "rich people". A lot of people now use a cleaning person and who mows their own lawn anymore?

In an economic sense, it's America's new version of slavery. Where once we provided food and shelter in exchange for labor. Now we exchange barely enough money for food and shelter in exchange for labor. At least the ugly parts are mostly gone. However, I can't help but thinking that will create a passive acceptance of this societal structure.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#25

Post by UweSchmidt »

JVIDEL wrote: post #16
recuter wrote: post #6

Cowen bluntly predicted what he called “wage polarization.” The increasing ability of computers to perform ordinary tasks will inexorably transform America into an income oligarchy in which the top 15 percent of people—with skills “that are a complement to the computer”—will enjoy “cheery” labor-market prospects and soaring incomes, while the bottom 85 percent, that is to say, 267 million out of America’s 315 million…

I think the real news here is stuff like this: According to figures collected by Joel Kotkin, the dotcom crash wiped out 70,000 jobs in the valley in a little over a single year, and since then the tech industry has added only 30,000 new ones, leaving the bay region with a net 40,000 fewer jobs than existed in 2001.

If it's true that anyone who could say "HTML" in 2001 was called a "programmer", then that year is not a good baseline for tech job statistics.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#26

Post by venomsnake »

riggins wrote: post #23
auggierose wrote: post #8

> Yes! Let them eat beans! Preferably in their apartments. No, seriously now. I've got a friend who 5 years ago decided that he needs "to straighten his life out", and now he has a huge house in SV and is lead engineer at Apple. That's really fine, and obviously not everyone can have such a life. And people will really have to look inside themselves, and ask themselves what it REALLY is they want. If they want status…

A solution to this dystopian future would be the basic income I'm fascinated to see how philanthropic society will choose to be. Here's why. With the advent of robots I believe that something fundamental has changed. Elites, if they so choose, will not need to accommodate lower classes. Previously, there had to be some sharing because elites still had to rely on other humans for policing and military. However, it see…

Think of the other side ... all the hacker movies that we watched - they could become a reality. When you launch your startup why not just try to use zero day exploit to mess with the brakes of Zuckeberg's tesla (that is PS4 on wheels) while he is near a cliff.

Home made drones - with the advance of 3d printing why not? If 10 people could create a billion dollar company today just think what a rogue genius could do in 10 years if he is hell bent on eating the rich.

Technology is an enabler. It also enables the nasty stuff. And the elites while more powerful than ever will also be more fragile and vulnerable. And if they unravel the social fabric that keeps them safe now ...

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#27

Post by userulluipeste »

ominous_prime wrote: post #15
meddlepal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how do you handle inflation in a base income economy? It seems that any extra freely allocated capital would immediately be nullified by the increase to inflation it would cause?

Basic income does not increase the money supply, which would bring about inflation. There may be an increase in the general cost of living for many, but that's not inflation, and it wouldn't absorb the entirety of one's basic income.

It seems that "inflation" has an equivocal meaning here. I presume he meant that the purchasing power of the currency would diminish and it's not hard to imagine why. Look at housing - if the credit wouldn't be cheap (or if it wouldn't be available on a large scale), the houses have to have a price between the basic price (the combined cost of land plus house construction) and the price that the market can bear. Given the credit, the housing becomes able to bear a lot more. The housing credit affects just housing, but a basic income would affect pretty much everything an average Joe would require. A basic income would rise both the basic prices for every human-involved activity (the payed work becomes more expensive) and the bar of what a vast pool of potential clients could bear/afford.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#28

Post by knowaveragejoe »

rbanffy wrote: post #4
gibbonraver wrote: post #3

The silence is deafening.

This was posted on 2 AM PST. Give the discussion a couple hours.

It's already at the bottom of the front page, I imagine it won't be there in the next half hour or so.
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