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End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

nytimes.com

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Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#21

Post by 7952 »

monsterix wrote: post #3

And what about the remaining 7 billion law-abiding souls on the planet? I resonate with the intent of this article but how come protecting only an Americans' privacy be of concern to this voice on NYT? I believe this approach is not only insular (apart from being stupid) but also destined to fail. If I were to run dragnet, I'd accept protecting the interest and privacy of all Americans back home, but strike a deal wi…

The cat is out of the bag now. There are enough bad actors in the world to assume that monitoring will continue indefinitely regardless of what the NSA does. This threat can only be mitigated by developing new protocols and technology. The sad thing is that the NSA could have helped society secure itself years ago. Instead they left vulnerabilities unpatched and the public open to attack.

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#22

Post by scrrr »

AsymetricCom wrote: post #9
scrrr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much easier to opt out of corporate sniffing. A Linux laptop with the OS booted from a live-cd comes to mind.. and of course not engaging in all these web-services helps.

How does booting Linux from a live CD make your packets invulnerable to sniffing? Also, that's not a real solution, even if it did work.

Sure, all it does is to make sure that no cookies are retained and that other things that can identify the user (browser version, fonts, installed extensions, etc.), are more or less defaults which, I assume, makes id more difficult.

I also assume/hope that Google and Facebook etc. are not able to sniff any packets that are not meant for them.

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#23

Post by AsymetricCom »

adventured wrote: post #15
AsymetricCom wrote: post #5

The thing about the NSA dragnet is that if the NSA wasn't doing it, then corporations would (are) doing it. You can't stop technology from moving forward. Someone is going to be sniffing your packets now until the end of time.

Not very worried about Google arresting me at some point in the future with their jackboot thugs for something I did or said in the past (when X wasn't illegal). This applies to Facebook, Twitter, AT&T, Verizon, Samsung, Snapchat, and so on. When these guys start trying to acquire their own domestic armies, then I'll get really concerned. There seems to be a common gloss-over regarding the fact that it's the United S…

Black water already exists so your nightmare scenario is about one contract away.

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#24

Post by samolang »

twoodfin wrote: post #8
spodek wrote: post #2

Senators have to go to the press to try to stop the government from doing what clearly breaks the law -- the Constitution, no less -- using up billions of taxpayer funds and undermines American business for no clear benefit. Conventional wisdom says the Cold War was between the doctrines of Capitalism and Communism and that the doctrine of Capitalism won. It doesn't look like that view was right. The doctrine of the…

Can you justify your claim that a bulk collection of phone records "clearly" violates the Constitution? I don't think the jurisprudence is so obviously on your side there.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#25

Post by onli »

spodek wrote: post #2

Senators have to go to the press to try to stop the government from doing what clearly breaks the law -- the Constitution, no less -- using up billions of taxpayer funds and undermines American business for no clear benefit. Conventional wisdom says the Cold War was between the doctrines of Capitalism and Communism and that the doctrine of Capitalism won. It doesn't look like that view was right. The doctrine of the…

No. Capitalism clearly won. But Capitalism is not Freedom, not democracy and is not the rule of the law. Capitalism is a way to conduct business by letting people posess the means of production, and the capital to produce as well.

It was not only rhetoric that in the fight between USA and UDSSR, there was a fight between freedom and authority. But mainly, it was a fight between different ways to regulate the means of production. Capitalism won, but that does not mean that freedom, democracy and the rule of the law will survive that victory.

China shows that you can have a capitalst economy in a (not a real one, but wanting to be) communist country.

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#26

Post by dpweb »

"Our first priority is to keep Americans safe from the threat of terrorism." There's the problem. Even by those protesting sweeping NSA collection, we're obsessed with this.

When the axis powers threatened to plunge the world into 1000 years of darkness, the only thing we had to fear is fear itself, now - that's not good enough - we must fear the unending threat of terrorism. Letting the NSA run wild is a logical result from this mentality.

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#27

Post by yen223 »

adventured wrote: post #15
AsymetricCom wrote: post #5

The thing about the NSA dragnet is that if the NSA wasn't doing it, then corporations would (are) doing it. You can't stop technology from moving forward. Someone is going to be sniffing your packets now until the end of time.

Not very worried about Google arresting me at some point in the future with their jackboot thugs for something I did or said in the past (when X wasn't illegal). This applies to Facebook, Twitter, AT&T, Verizon, Samsung, Snapchat, and so on. When these guys start trying to acquire their own domestic armies, then I'll get really concerned. There seems to be a common gloss-over regarding the fact that it's the United S…

Samsung already has a weapons manufacturing arm. Your dystopian nightmare of a future may not be so far off!

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#28

Post by minikites »

deelowe wrote: post #18
AsymetricCom wrote: post #5

The thing about the NSA dragnet is that if the NSA wasn't doing it, then corporations would (are) doing it. You can't stop technology from moving forward. Someone is going to be sniffing your packets now until the end of time.

Corporations don't have the legal right to take my property or harm me or my family. The two aren't equal.

Yeah, no bank has ever foreclosed on someone's home.

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#29

Post by a3n »

adventured wrote: post #15
AsymetricCom wrote: post #5

The thing about the NSA dragnet is that if the NSA wasn't doing it, then corporations would (are) doing it. You can't stop technology from moving forward. Someone is going to be sniffing your packets now until the end of time.

Not very worried about Google arresting me at some point in the future with their jackboot thugs for something I did or said in the past (when X wasn't illegal). This applies to Facebook, Twitter, AT&T, Verizon, Samsung, Snapchat, and so on. When these guys start trying to acquire their own domestic armies, then I'll get really concerned. There seems to be a common gloss-over regarding the fact that it's the United S…

You should be concerned now, because the government can compel those companies to hand over their dossier on you, including your cell's tower or GPS records, your extremist views (surely something you've written is extremely different from someone in power, now or in the future), your advocacy of treason (you must have expressed displeasure about a President or member of Congress at some time), your support of terrorists (ever say anything negative about a declared or undeclared war?), and anything else you've ever said as a dirty, stinkin' agitator.

You've also been in a conversation with me, and that makes you a person of interest in some very plausible future scenario. ... "So, we notice that you spent a lot of time on this Hacker News site. Tell us about that."

Re: End the N.S.A. Dragnet, Now

#30

Post by a3n »

samolang wrote: post #24
twoodfin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you justify your claim that a bulk collection of phone records "clearly" violates the Constitution? I don't think the jurisprudence is so obviously on your side there.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

We should write that down somewhere.
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