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Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

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Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#41
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because how dare any citizen question it's government, right? /s

Are you serious? You can question everything you want as an ordinary citizen. The moment you sign a contract, specially for the military, you agree to keep your word. So, right, how dare the government hold someone to their word? You're basically advocating lying and not honoring your promises. BTW - I basically make a living honoring promises and contracts, otherwise we wouldn't have customers ;)

[deleted]

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#42
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because how dare any citizen question it's government, right? /s

Are you serious? You can question everything you want as an ordinary citizen. The moment you sign a contract, specially for the military, you agree to keep your word. So, right, how dare the government hold someone to their word? You're basically advocating lying and not honoring your promises. BTW - I basically make a living honoring promises and contracts, otherwise we wouldn't have customers ;)

> You're basically advocating lying and not honoring your promises.

Yes, obviously. There are situations where you ought to lie. The typical example: "Are there any Jews in your basement?"

Decency is more than keeping to the words, sometimes it even requires you break them to keep the spirit of promise. We generally give promises contingent on implied good behaviour from the other parties. When others break their promises the stack built on that mutual honour collapses.

And I'm fine living in the world where that's the way people treat promises, I massively prefer it to the world where people can be tricked into promising something and then have to keep to it when it turns out to be abhorrent.

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can completely understand your position if you are an American. And I'm sure you can understand us foreigners trying to show our appreciation for a man who uncovered this extensive evil intrusion into our lives.

Bottom line, he's a traitor. Beyond that, most of the laws that helped start this were set into effect years ago. Where were the people crying then? Most people complain about having their privacy taken away when using free online services. All I see are a bunch of ignorant loud mouths who got angry too late.

re: free services, a) they massively monitor and soak up data from the internet backbone. b) in addition to going through the ludicrous "proper channels" (secret courts and letters - arguably not compatible with democracy) they forcibly break in to said services to get more data - if you think they don't do this for paid and supposedly secure services you're delusional. But you don't. You just don't care.

re: getting angry too late. Yes that is typically how it works. Not every person can be fully informed on every complex issue. At some point however a line was crossed on this issue and it became part of the public consciousness. To say these people don't deserve their privacy because they were too late to the party is disingenuous, unrealistic and frankly a really disturbing approach to take.

"You don't deserve your health because you weren't protesting when they _started_ to secretly dump chemicals in the waters - oh now that it's common knowlege you're pissed off? You got angry too late, you ignorant loudmouth."

re: traitor. He's a traitor to the U.S. military. Treason is not a global binary thing. You can be a traitor to one person and a hero to another. In this case he has done far more good than harm to most people on this planet. You are at once short-sighted and narrow-minded for refusing to look beyond this fact.

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#44
post #8

Government: Snowden is a terrorist. People: Snowden is a hero. What a great way to bring this difference of opinion to the fore.

Person of the year is the person considered to have had the most significant influence on the world, but not necessarily for the better. It's an acknowledgment of their significance, not an endorsement of their actions. Previous winners include Hitler, Stalin and Ayatullah Khomeini.

No matter where someone falls on the Snoweden-is-a-terrorist/Snowden-is-a-hero scale, they can all agree that his actions greatly influenced the current poltical narrative, and stands a good chance of changing the world (for better or worse depending on which side of the debate you stand on) as we move forward.

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#45

No way, I don't vote for traitors. All his US supporters are a bunch of Benedict Arnolds. BTW, just voted for Miley. She definitely made my year.

I can completely understand your position if you are an American. And I'm sure you can understand us foreigners trying to show our appreciation for a man who uncovered this extensive evil intrusion into our lives.

Don't speak for all foreigners. I'm from Russia and I loathe Snowden who basically became a propaganda prop for Putin.

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or twitter: ---------- This application will be able to: Read Tweets from your timeline. See who you follow, and follow new people. Update your profile. Post Tweets for you. ---------- SRSLY?

Eh, vote then revoke access to the app.

Making it very complicated to cast a simple vote.

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Traitor (noun) a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle. Damn right he's a traitor, but only a traitor to the US government. To millions of people (like me) he's a hero.

And where were people like you several years ago when the laws were signed that allow the government to tap into network lines? A hero and their army are useless when they're late to the war. I don't honor traitors, but go ahead and worship him all you want.

In the Netherlands. Being non-US, like 97% of the world, I am not allowed to vote on all those US-policies that shape my life.

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Traitor (noun) a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle. Damn right he's a traitor, but only a traitor to the US government. To millions of people (like me) he's a hero.

And where were people like you several years ago when the laws were signed that allow the government to tap into network lines? A hero and their army are useless when they're late to the war. I don't honor traitors, but go ahead and worship him all you want.

I was protesting then, too. They didn't listen. I'm still protesting, but now a lot more people are aware of what's going on.

And, I'd like to point out: Not everything the NSA has been doing is legal, even according to the terrifyingly broad laws put in place during the panic after 9/11.

If you're going to wave around the "T" word...the traitors are in our government. They're the ones who would give up liberty for the illusion of safety. Also, Benedict Arnold is a silly comparison to make; read your history a bit more closely and think it through. Snowden may not be a hero in your eyes; I disagree, but I can't tell you how to feel about it. But, to compare him to Arnold doesn't even make sense.

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#49
I'm wondering why some people are on the list, like Miley Cyrus or the guy behind Netflix. If those are, why not others? I'd personally vote for the head of Naughty Dog and The Last of Us over Netflix.

PS: thinking about it, I'd vote for Satoshi. We should do a HN POY.

PS2 : done! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6800515

Re: Vote Now: Who Should Be Time's Person of the Year? Edward Snowden

#50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can completely understand your position if you are an American. And I'm sure you can understand us foreigners trying to show our appreciation for a man who uncovered this extensive evil intrusion into our lives.

Don't speak for all foreigners. I'm from Russia and I loathe Snowden who basically became a propaganda prop for Putin.

Well, this is an interesting issue. I tend to stick to the viewpoint that if a disgusting person does something worthwhile, and gets praised for it, that praise is earned. A good deed doesn't become a bad deed just because it's done by a bad person.
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