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Copper enables the ARM server ecosystem

dell.com

91–94 of 94 posts

Re: Copper enables the ARM server ecosystem

#91
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're right, the EnergyCore isn't 64-bit, and of course there are other differences between the architectures. Perhaps you could actually provide some information on how those differences might affect the two systems' capabilities. Or are you just here to snipe at others?

My role here is to prevent people going away with misguided information presented as fact and propagating it elsewhere. Or maybe I should just keep my great big trap shut and sit here feeling smug instead. There is too little information provided on the two examples to be more precise, otherwise I would have gone into it. All we know is the Boston machine is EnergyCore-based - now that could be a 1000 which is Cortex…

In other words, you don't really know enough to say there's a difference. What we do know is that they're the same basic architecture and instruction set, at very similar process levels, so it's not at all unreasonable to estimate that the performance difference is proportional to the clock-rate difference. That clock-rate difference is probably dwarfed both by Viridis's 50% nodes-per-rack advantage and Copper's 2x memory-per-node advantage, so the quibble just wasn't worth it. Thanks for adding so much to the discussion.

Re: Copper enables the ARM server ecosystem

#92

I suppose this is one of the things you can do when you take DELL private, no institutional shareholders to sue you because you 'threatened their value' with a radical product idea. As a systems guy I love the concept, but I'm a bit sad at the implementation. I would have loved to see the back plane of these things connect to a 'switch module' and take the connectors off the front. Basically a 48 port GBE switch with…

This is is almost proof of concept technology. If it takes off I'm sure that DELL will invest a lot more R&D in it.

Re: Copper enables the ARM server ecosystem

#93
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My role here is to prevent people going away with misguided information presented as fact and propagating it elsewhere. Or maybe I should just keep my great big trap shut and sit here feeling smug instead. There is too little information provided on the two examples to be more precise, otherwise I would have gone into it. All we know is the Boston machine is EnergyCore-based - now that could be a 1000 which is Cortex…

In other words, you don't really know enough to say there's a difference. What we do know is that they're the same basic architecture and instruction set, at very similar process levels, so it's not at all unreasonable to estimate that the performance difference is proportional to the clock-rate difference. That clock-rate difference is probably dwarfed both by Viridis's 50% nodes-per-rack advantage and Copper's 2x m…

No - I did not at all say they were very similar. The truth is we have very little to go on to know how much like a Marvell Armada XP is like an A15. In the past, Marvells have been known to be quite different from their stock counterparts.

Re: Copper enables the ARM server ecosystem

#94
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well sure, but you could replace those servers with a low-power x86 and get most of the same benefit that Calxeda are touting. Massively overprovisioning is going to waste power. An 8051 is probably going to give a better power/performance ratio than a quad-core ARM for an embedded controller, which tells me nothing about which I should choose to run my database.

Where is that low-power x86 and its fleet of low-power support chips to do what something like an Armada or EnergyCore can do on its own? They have yet to come up with one. As for your 8051 example, it's bogus because that chip simply can't do the work. It can't run a real OS, and even if it could do that it couldn't keep even a single Ethernet or SATA port busy. Therefore you'd need a lot more nodes, each with their…

A quad-core Xeon is overkill for a static content webserver. An ARM is overkill for an embedded controller. If you specify inappropriate hardware then you'll end up with an inappropriate power/performance ratio.

As for low-power x86 - HP's Moonshot is in the ballpark of ARM blade devices, and Baytrail pushes Intel even closer. ARM probably still wins, but the figures are nothing like 15x. And once you take fixed costs like disk and RAM into account, the difference ends up being even smaller.

ARM have done a great job of improving the performance of their cores. Intel have done a great job of cutting the x86 power budget. Given that nobody's really shipping ARM servers yet, it's still not clear who's going to come up with the better product. The problem that ARM face is that they not only have to be better, they have to be sufficiently better that it's worth the cost of porting in-house applications to a new architecture.

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