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America's underground market for adopted children

reuters.com

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Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#21

Post by rdl »

rdtsc wrote: post #3

There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in…

Lack of provenance information makes me wary of adopting cats from the SPCA (instead, I'm going to a breeder I know and adopting a retired show cat, or possibly kitten from that breeder). My friends have adopted pets which/who turned out to have massive unreported health problems, and now have high expenses and a fairly non functional or labor intensive pet.

Children would be vastly worse, I'm sure.

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#22

Post by enko »

x0x0 wrote: post #12
rdtsc wrote: post #3

There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in…

It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents. The article also emphasizes that the US government, both federal and state, offers virtually no help to the parents and highlights a case where th…

> China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents

About 2 years ago I was watching a documentary about china-to-america adoptions on japanese television. While the point was never explicitly raised, the viewer could not help but notice that most or all of the children up for adoption - no interested chinese parents having being found - were, and there's no nice way to say this, quite physically unattractive, developmentally challenged, or both.

The program showed American couples arriving to claim their new family member and I was struck by how unwitting they seemed. I got the impression they simply did not have enough experience with asian children to realise that their adoptive child had, to put it brutally, a pretty poor genotype, with a host of physical and behavioural ramifications.

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#23

Post by w1ntermute »

gambiting wrote: post #16
w1ntermute wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the developed countries forbid adoptions of country nationals by foreign citizens I wouldn't exactly consider Russia "developed".

I wouldn't consider your opinion well thought through.

Well, you're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

Protip: next time, try doing some basic research before making an uneducated comment.

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#24

Post by rdtsc »

x0x0 wrote: post #12
rdtsc wrote: post #3

There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in…

It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents. The article also emphasizes that the US government, both federal and state, offers virtually no help to the parents and highlights a case where th…

> It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents.

Yes they would lie. Shortcuts are taken at every step, bribes are paid. [Well I speak about the situation 10 years ago]. So some shadiness and cutting corners happens form both ends. American parents know they are paying bribes and cutting corners in the "process". I know of a case 10 years ago. They snuck the baby out of Russia by bribing. Bribed officials and people all through the chain. I was told there would not be another way. That child turnout to have issues. Not as severe but it sure put a tremendous strain on that family.

Anyway back to lies. I don't know if Russia or those other countries have laws to only give severely challenged kids to US parents. I think many orphanages do that individually because they think those children would have a better chance at a good life in America. Americans (at least a decade ago, when I was able to better compare) were seen as having unlimited resources and big hearts. They were the only ones who would adopt children with those issues. And by enlarge American families felt (feel?) the same, they feel they can provide and take care of a child with special needs. Some are aware of what they are getting into but many, don't but think they can handle it. That is when it becomes very dangerous.

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#25

Post by silencio »

rdl wrote: post #21
rdtsc wrote: post #3

There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in…

Lack of provenance information makes me wary of adopting cats from the SPCA (instead, I'm going to a breeder I know and adopting a retired show cat, or possibly kitten from that breeder). My friends have adopted pets which/who turned out to have massive unreported health problems, and now have high expenses and a fairly non functional or labor intensive pet. Children would be vastly worse, I'm sure.

Which SPCA were you looking into?

When I went to go adopt a cat with my fiancé, the SF SPCA were so upfront about known problems with the cats they had that I was surprised because it wasn't something I had really considered. We ended up adopting a cat from SF Animal Care & Control in the end since the SPCA had no more younger-than-5-years cats to adopt that day. SF ACC (and I assume SF SPCA too) not only test for health and behavioral issues before even making pets available for adoption, but also keep track of day to day behavior and are upfront about everything they found out while they've had the cat. It wouldn't be in anyone's benefit to make someone adopt a pet without learning of major, discoverable problems anyway, since the cats would be back for adoption soon if it was that bad.

Anyway, we found the sweetest 2 year old cat that had been abandoned by her owner that had nothing bad about her except that she doesn't like other cats and that she had been around at the shelter for a couple months because nobody wanted an "older" cat to adopt. She loves to just sit around and preen herself, and occasionally knocks our mice over or sits in front of our computers or on our laptops asking for treats. Life is so much better with her around, no idea what we would have done without her or with a different cat, and we were also of the "we really want to get kittens, maybe we should check breeders" mindset thankfully changed by an SPCA volunteer that gave us a heads up about the ACC shelter across the street. Maybe you can find a cat like her too instead of getting a kitten from a breeder :)

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#26

Post by rdl »

silencio wrote: post #25
rdl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of provenance information makes me wary of adopting cats from the SPCA (instead, I'm going to a breeder I know and adopting a retired show cat, or possibly kitten from that breeder). My friends have adopted pets which/who turned out to have massive unreported health problems, and now have high expenses and a fairly non functional or labor intensive pet. Children would be vastly worse, I'm sure.

Which SPCA were you looking into? When I went to go adopt a cat with my fiancé, the SF SPCA were so upfront about known problems with the cats they had that I was surprised because it wasn't something I had really considered. We ended up adopting a cat from SF Animal Care & Control in the end since the SPCA had no more younger-than-5-years cats to adopt that day. SF ACC (and I assume SF SPCA too) not only test for he…

The really bad cases were in Singapore. I'm probably waiting until I buy/rent a house in WA next year, so maybe up in Bellevue I'll look, but one of the world's top 5 Russian Blue breeders is in Hillsborough, and she offered one of her retired show cats, which might be better than a kitten. The advantage of a kitten is I want to train the cat to be comfortable in cars, as well as (ideally) to use a toilet. Show cats tend to be used to travel, at least.

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#27

Post by consonants »

rdtsc wrote: post #3

There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in…

Do you have a link to the Reddit post? I'd like to have a look.

I agree that there definitely should either be some combinations of education, regulations and resources for parents who find themselves in this situation. There should also be strict enforcement of current laws with severe punishment for trading children online.

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#29

Post by marquis »

grahamburger wrote: post #14
x0x0 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents. The article also emphasizes that the US government, both federal and state, offers virtually no help to the parents and highlights a case where th…

My parents adopted my sister from Russia about 20 years ago. At the time, Russian law only allowed foreign adoptions if the child had a physical or mental disability. My sister had a crossed eye, that was sufficient to allow her out of the country. She is now 22 years old, going to college, and living a happy, healthy life. Some friends of my parents adopted two children from the same orphanage, a brother and sister.…

There is an incredible story of this nature on This American Life (this episode is very hard for parents to listen to, but very beautiful)

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/317/u...

Re: America's underground market for adopted children

#30

Post by mturmon »

rdl wrote: post #21
rdtsc wrote: post #3

There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in…

Lack of provenance information makes me wary of adopting cats from the SPCA (instead, I'm going to a breeder I know and adopting a retired show cat, or possibly kitten from that breeder). My friends have adopted pets which/who turned out to have massive unreported health problems, and now have high expenses and a fairly non functional or labor intensive pet. Children would be vastly worse, I'm sure.

I have no experience with cats, but a lot of experience with adopting dogs from the SPCA (Pasadena) or private shelters. I.e., mutts from the pound. If you know something about pets, and/or the shelter has expertise with adoption, you should be able to adopt a dog who would be a good match for you or your family.

You should be able to set aside a few months to deal with any issues the dog has, like anxiety or other behavioral issues, and to dial in the diet and routines like walks. The shelter should be able to help with some of this. Taking this time is similar to dealing with a puppy.

I know you wrote about cats, but I felt a need to chime in about adopting companion animals from a shelter instead of going to a breeder. Adoption from a shelter is a perfectly good option, and it's a way to do some animal a favor, maybe saving its life.

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