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Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

nerdalize.com

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Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#21

Post by shalmanese »

This kind of proposal has been cropping up for over 15 years now and always end up not really working out. We actually looked seriously into this as an option when we moved into a new office and two major issues were immediate dealbreakers:

1. The depreciation cost of new hardware made this economically a no go. With second hand hardware, there was some number fiddling you could do to make it kind of work until it required any kind of human intervention whatsoever, then the labor costs dwarf the savings.

2. Computer enclosures are not designed to minimize the db/W/$. Low noise computers are generally achieved by reducing the power of parts and using expensive materials. High wattage computers tend to be extremely noisy. We couldn't be having a noisy heating system in our workplace, distracting everybody.

Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#22

Post by bernatfp »

This would be useful with SHA256/scrypt miners to mitigate costs.

I was considering doing this with my Litecoin miner. Its fans pull hot air from my GPUs at 85ºC which makes its room warmer than my bedroom. Maybe I should move it to my room and turn off the heater...

Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#23

Post by jmpe »

ajcarpy2005 wrote: post #20
graeme wrote: post #12

How would this work during the warm months when heating is not needed?

Heat hot water for house and use forced air ventilation over cheap heat exchanger (vented to outside) for excess heat after that? Also, could duct the heat into the clothes dryer maybe?

I think Google uses a technique that could be put in this setup: heat the water in the toilet cistern, flushing disposes the collected energy.

Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#24

Post by mchannon »

The economics of this do not work.

A house typically gets residential electrical service, ranging from 10-18¢/kWh in most of the country.

A server farm or datacenter typically gets general or industrial electrical service, at a savings of >5¢/kWh off the residential rate.

So, either you compensate the homeowner for the extra power cost (why?) or expect them to eat at least part of the cost.

This service would need some of the following to happen in order to be justifiable:

•A specific reason to have a server in a specific town (perhaps as a data collection or distribution center)

•Lack of suitable space and reliable power in an area, making residential or remote the only option

•A residential client capable of taking on general or industrial power rates (some apartment complexes or buildings might)

•Ridiculously low power costs and a constant need for low-grade heat (eastern Iceland perhaps?)

Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#25

Post by maxander »

mchannon wrote: post #24

The economics of this do not work. A house typically gets residential electrical service, ranging from 10-18¢/kWh in most of the country. A server farm or datacenter typically gets general or industrial electrical service, at a savings of >5¢/kWh off the residential rate. So, either you compensate the homeowner for the extra power cost (why?) or expect them to eat at least part of the cost. This service would need so…

According to the site, they pay the homeowner the entire cost of powering the server. They claim to save "60% of TOC" for not having to buy a dedicated datacenter building and cooling system, which sounds reasonable in the short term (although, eventually a datacenter-builder will recoup the costs of construction, while an electricity premium is constant.) It looks like homeowner also pays Nerdalize to sign on- which may make their balance sheet more reasonable, but is also only a short-term advantage if the server is leased indefinitely.

In the long-run, they're probably just banking on people paying a modest premium for "green computation."

Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#26

Post by dylandrop »

ISL wrote: post #19
dylandrop wrote: post #9

I think this is cool, but I don't think the homeowner should have to pay up front for this datacenter in their home. I would be much more convinced to adopt this if I didn't have to pay for something that could be potentially loud, not work well, etc. For one thing, it just seems a bit scammy -- "Hey, just pay us to be our facility"! Also I don't think what the homeowner gets back from this system should be hinged on…

Leasing the computation equipment is a sensible way to bootstrap the process. There's risk associated with siting a computer at someone's home; if the homeowner has some money invested in the computer, they're less likely to walk off with it, repurpose it, or accidentally damage it. If there's a developed home heating/computation market, homeowners would be happy to invest in a compuheater.

I think that a better way to hold homeowners responsible would be to charge them for damage rather than charge them for simply having it. It would probably convince more people to join in the first place.

This brings me to your second point -- the problem is precisely that there ISN'T a developed home heating/computation market, which is why it would be difficult to convince people to use it (considering they have no idea if it will work and what trouble it could cause them).

Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#27

Post by rmason »

Here's a potentially much better idea. Build server farms near greenhouses and pipe the heat over to them. Heating is the single largest expense for greenhouses, more even than labor.

If the servers were in modular units such as semi trailers you could place however many you needed for the size of greenhouse range. Since greenhouses tend to be grouped in regions such as Cleveland, OH and Kalamazoo, MI you'd have your servers in a small enough area for a single person to be able to service them.

Re: Nerdalize: warm house, cheap datacenter

#28

Post by ajcarpy2005 »

jmpe wrote: post #23
ajcarpy2005 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat hot water for house and use forced air ventilation over cheap heat exchanger (vented to outside) for excess heat after that? Also, could duct the heat into the clothes dryer maybe?

I think Google uses a technique that could be put in this setup: heat the water in the toilet cistern, flushing disposes the collected energy.

Hmm, interesting. At first seems more hygienic but on second thought, it might make it extra-aromatic when depositing bodily excretions into the hot water. Perhaps not a big deal though.

But given that water has a high specific heat, that could be a way to dispose of a lot of excess heat.

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