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Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

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Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#61

Post by cjo »

coob wrote: post #27
kadabra9 wrote: post #10

Reading more about this match and Magnus in general, I learned of a measure termed "Nettlesomeness" which has been used to measure which players do the most to make their opponents to make mistakes. Magnus, with his highly creative style of play and unexpected moves, not surprisingly ranks the highest in this measure. He seems to have this remarkable gift of making moves which aren't just strong, they get inside his…

This reminds me of the sorry of Deep Blue's buggy randomness causing Kasperov to freak out: http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/09/deep-blue-computer-bug...

There was a checker playing computer called Chinook that had something similar happen at one point (iirc one of its databases was corrupted).

Definitely worth listening to the story: http://relprime.com/chinook/

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#62

Post by cynicalkane »

TylerE wrote: post #30
aaronetz wrote: post #24

Does anyone know some good alternatives to chess, as a game that mixes deep thought and aesthetic variety? I tried Go, but found it somewhat boring compared to chess, because of its uniformity (which, on the other hand, has the advantage of beautiful simplicity and symmetry.) On another note: it is unfortunate, in my opinion, that chess has a special standing among board games. I would love to see some more variety i…

Not a board game, but Bridge. Backgammon is also very rich also, although there is a random element there which, depending on your preferences, is either a good or bad thing.

+1 for Bridge.

Bridge is a game of short-term and long-term memory, strategy (in long matches), tactics, deduction, induction, risk assessment, hidden information, and finally a strong test of character, and your judgment of the characters of others. Unlike chess it does not seem to have a "limit" where you stop getting smarter and start merely learning more about chess. There's a reason it's the favorite game of some of the world's smartest and richest men.

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#63

Post by jmilloy »

aaronetz wrote: post #24

Does anyone know some good alternatives to chess, as a game that mixes deep thought and aesthetic variety? I tried Go, but found it somewhat boring compared to chess, because of its uniformity (which, on the other hand, has the advantage of beautiful simplicity and symmetry.) On another note: it is unfortunate, in my opinion, that chess has a special standing among board games. I would love to see some more variety i…

I think Hive is the best chess "alternative". It feels lighter, but plays deeply and is never boring. It has an interesting geometric component. And there are annual championships.

(Get the Hive Carbon edition, it's much nicer looking)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hive_(game)

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#64

Post by TylerE »

cynicalkane wrote: post #62
TylerE wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a board game, but Bridge. Backgammon is also very rich also, although there is a random element there which, depending on your preferences, is either a good or bad thing.

+1 for Bridge. Bridge is a game of short-term and long-term memory, strategy (in long matches), tactics, deduction, induction, risk assessment, hidden information, and finally a strong test of character, and your judgment of the characters of others. Unlike chess it does not seem to have a "limit" where you stop getting smarter and start merely learning more about chess. There's a reason it's the favorite game of som…

Do you play on BBO? Always looking for good partners, especially those interested in playing weird stuff, which I have a feeling you might...

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#66

Post by TylerE »

cynicalkane wrote: post #62
TylerE wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a board game, but Bridge. Backgammon is also very rich also, although there is a random element there which, depending on your preferences, is either a good or bad thing.

+1 for Bridge. Bridge is a game of short-term and long-term memory, strategy (in long matches), tactics, deduction, induction, risk assessment, hidden information, and finally a strong test of character, and your judgment of the characters of others. Unlike chess it does not seem to have a "limit" where you stop getting smarter and start merely learning more about chess. There's a reason it's the favorite game of som…

Another nice thing about bridge is that most tournaments are open, and even if flighted you're almost always given the option of "playing up". I, as a serious amateur have had the chance to play against probably 3 of the top 10 players in the world, and anther 10-15 that are probably top 100. I'm not talking exhibition games either, like a chess simul, but actual tournament play.

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#67

Post by japhyr »

3327 wrote: post #9

Chess is amazing it blows my mind why simple tools and games like this are not incorporated in some 'fun' way into the education system. By 'fun' I mean that if children were told to play chess they would not. A system would be need to be designed so that they look forward to chess class as they do for PE and art.

I've been teaching, middle school and high school, for the past 15 years. I have always had a stash of chess sets and clocks in my room. They see pretty consistent use.

I love chess in schools for a number of reasons. One of the most interesting things about watching chess in schools is seeing who rises to the top. The best players tend not to be the brightest academic students. The best players tend to be smart kids who fight some of the bs that schools make kids endure. These kids are smart enough to 'get' chess, and have enough fight in them to stick out the difficult moments in games and tournaments that separate the best from the really good. These are the kids who tend to get in trouble a lot, who get bad reputations among teachers. Watching those kids show everyone up by winning chess tournaments soundly against the brightest academic kids is pretty awesome, and can be life-changing for some students.

I love teaching chess because you can teach anyone some simple ideas such as opening strategies, piece values, and simple endgames, and they can then beat anyone who hasn't learned those concepts. Kids who never thought they could learn a "smart person" game like chess suddenly play well, and start to realize they can do intellectual things. Then you start to see natural talent come into students' games.

Playing chess with kids is fun! If you have the chance, introduce a kid to chess.

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#68

Post by jmilloy »

TylerE wrote: post #30
aaronetz wrote: post #24

Does anyone know some good alternatives to chess, as a game that mixes deep thought and aesthetic variety? I tried Go, but found it somewhat boring compared to chess, because of its uniformity (which, on the other hand, has the advantage of beautiful simplicity and symmetry.) On another note: it is unfortunate, in my opinion, that chess has a special standing among board games. I would love to see some more variety i…

Not a board game, but Bridge. Backgammon is also very rich also, although there is a random element there which, depending on your preferences, is either a good or bad thing.

I played a lot of bridge through High School, tournaments, etc. I think it can become very robotic once you are just following conventions and can count cards without difficulty.

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#69

Post by GavinB »

biot wrote: post #34
erikig wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the comment, the concept of nettlesomeness intrigues me. "...Carlsen is demonstrating one of his most feared qualities, namely his “nettlesomeness,” to use a term coined for this purpose by Ken Regan. Using computer analysis, you can measure which players do the most to cause their opponents to make mistakes." I was surprised to see that this isn't just some subjective measure but can me measured using com…

I think this is actually based on subjective measures. An annotated game[0] will have ?!, ?, and ?? added by human commentators to indicate varying levels of mistakes. A computer analysis can make use of these subjective move evaluations within an annotated game to easily measure which players cause their opponents to make mistakes at a significantly greater frequency than their normal rate of mistakes. [0] http://en…

Since computers play chess (better than humans) by looking at moves and ranking them as advantageous or disadvantageous, I would think it would be relatively straightforward to use a computer to decide whether a move is a mistake or not.

Re: Magnus Carlsen is World Chess Champion

#70

Post by jballanc »

sergj wrote: post #32
aaronetz wrote: post #24

Does anyone know some good alternatives to chess, as a game that mixes deep thought and aesthetic variety? I tried Go, but found it somewhat boring compared to chess, because of its uniformity (which, on the other hand, has the advantage of beautiful simplicity and symmetry.) On another note: it is unfortunate, in my opinion, that chess has a special standing among board games. I would love to see some more variety i…

Boring compared to chess? As a Go player I take this as an insult. Go is way more interesting, there are more fights, more complexity and you make a lot of tactical and strategic decisions in one game. Also you have a great handicap system, playing stronger players is no big problem. Did I mention that there are no remis and pro matches are often decided by 0,5 points which is really little. I am ending my rant with…

I agree, but just wanted to add that if you find Go boring, I suggest you pick up a good Go book or two. The really good Go writers can construct an entire war narrative from a game of Go, all the while giving you deeper insight into the strategy and tactics at play in the game. To be honest, compared to Go writing, I find much writing about Chess to be very boring and analytical (though I'm sure that has as much to do with specific authors as with the subject matter in question).
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