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Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

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Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#51

Post by techzomby »

archagon wrote: post #39
tadfisher wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So browser extensions are bad now? When can HN get off the hate train for everything new? This place is seriously starting to depress me.

Well, most browser extensions relate to browsing. Google, on the other hand, is trying to turn the browser into an OS. This is a really big shift that may very well determine the future of computing, so I think there's plenty here for people to get legitimately angry about. Not really the same kind of "hate train" that occasionally shows up on project posts, I think.

What's wrong with the Chrome browser becoming an OS? What you get is a fast and secure OS. Most users spend most of the time on the browser anyways - why not leverage that to make user's lives easier?

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#52

Post by techzomby »

ams6110 wrote: post #40
isaacwaller wrote: post #2

I don't understand Chrome apps. They require installation and only work on Chrome, so they come with none of the benefits of the web. They are slower and uglier than native Windows/Mac/Linux apps. What's the point?

When you put it that way, they sound a lot like.... ActiveX

Except that ActiveX works only on Windows IE and not built on web tech. Chrome Apps run on ChromeOS, Windows, OSX, Linux, Android and IOS. And they are built using HTML and JS.

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#53

Post by coldtea »

archagon wrote: post #39
tadfisher wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So browser extensions are bad now? When can HN get off the hate train for everything new? This place is seriously starting to depress me.

Well, most browser extensions relate to browsing. Google, on the other hand, is trying to turn the browser into an OS. This is a really big shift that may very well determine the future of computing, so I think there's plenty here for people to get legitimately angry about. Not really the same kind of "hate train" that occasionally shows up on project posts, I think.

>What's wrong with the Chrome browser becoming an OS? What you get is a fast and secure OS.

Citation very much needed.

Fast? It's slower than native, and --for some tasks, like any kind involving multimedia editing-- useless.

Secure? When did OS+browser became more secure than just OS?

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#54

Post by techzomby »

zobzu wrote: post #18

"they’re Google’s way of pushing the limits of the Web as a platform." Nope, they're Google's way of extinguishing non-Chrome browsers. Only Chrome/Chromium will be supported. That's called vendor lock-in - regardless of being open source.

These apps don't run on Chrome the browser. They run on the Chrome runtime, and open outside the browser. So, if they're extinguishing non-Chrome browsers, they're extinguishing Chrome browser too - which is obviously not the case.

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#55

Post by coldtea »

indubitably wrote: post #12
haberman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add a few: - They work offline, like native apps, but are cross-platform, like web apps. - You can develop and distribute them without running your own server infrastructure (the Chrome store will distribute them and the run locally). - They work on ChromeOS

That’s a funny definition of cross-platform. You mean, it’s cross-platform if you use Google’s browser. And as far as offline goes, that’s an active area of development within the HTML5 spec. It doesn’t strike me as a particular draw given that it’s at least possible, if still somewhat painful, to build truly cross-platform apps with offline capabilities. Why should I support ChromeOS? ChromeOS is not the web!

>That’s a funny definition of cross-platform. You mean, it’s cross-platform if you use Google’s browser.

Cross platform just means they run in different platforms. Nothing in the notion depends on if they do so with native code or with some supporting layer (like the JVM, WxWidgets or Chrome).

>Why should I support ChromeOS? ChromeOS is not the web!

Why should you support ANYTHING for that matter? Including the web. If you want to do so, do it. If not, don't. You don't "have to".

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#56

Post by scotth »

techzomby wrote: post #52
ams6110 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you put it that way, they sound a lot like.... ActiveX

Except that ActiveX works only on Windows IE and not built on web tech. Chrome Apps run on ChromeOS, Windows, OSX, Linux, Android and IOS. And they are built using HTML and JS.

I don't think Chrome Apps work on iOS or Android. If they do, mind linking to confirmation?

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#57

Post by coldtea »

zobzu wrote: post #18

"they’re Google’s way of pushing the limits of the Web as a platform." Nope, they're Google's way of extinguishing non-Chrome browsers. Only Chrome/Chromium will be supported. That's called vendor lock-in - regardless of being open source.

>Nope, they're Google's way of extinguishing non-Chrome browsers. Only Chrome/Chromium will be supported. That's called vendor lock-in - regardless of being open source.

In order for it to be "vendor lock-in", people should care about those apps in the first place. Which they don't, much. In fact, they are quite niche.

So, yes, they'll might lock a 0.1% of people with that.

Now, if they did the same for Search, Mail or YT I'd be worried.

(Hint: even after all those years, Google Docs, a flagship has an insignificant user base -- and that one is not even Chrome-locked).

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#58

Post by coldtea »

yeukhon wrote: post #45
svachalek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the web was simple and homogenous before this?

I will be fair and the answer is no, but at least for the last 2-3 years we have a little stable environment. If it's ruby app we know it's rail, if it's Python we know it's either Django or Flask (or Pyramid). When we think about client side we think of jQuery and pure Javascript. I know there are coffee script lovers and I admit it's great that people coming up with new tools, but we have too much to digest. There…

>I will be fair and the answer is no, but at least for the last 2-3 years we have a little stable environment. If it's ruby app we know it's rail, if it's Python we know it's either Django or Flask (or Pyramid). When we think about client side we think of jQuery and pure Javascript.

If you think that, then you're misguided.

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#59

Post by pcwalton »

patrickaljord wrote: post #31
zobzu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH JDK has open, 3rd party implementations. I'm running one right now. Chrome's API don't have this. Chrome == Chromium, and there's nothing else under the sun that either have it or want it. HOWEVER - Chrome has the largest marketshare by far, thus enforcing whatever it wants. Knowing competitors will not pick up the functionality because "its really made just for Chrome, not for the open web", that's called "extin…

jdk is not open source, or wasn't at the time. So 3rd parties open implementations were required. Chrome through chromium is an open implementation by default and it's highly maintained, tested and optimized. Reimplementing it wouldn't make much sense and so would complaining about the lack of implementations.

> Reimplementing it wouldn't make much sense and so would complaining about the lack of implementations.

I do not think that Chromium represents the best possible implementation of the Web stack. Having multiple implementations of HTML and the various related specs is what has pushed them forward so rapidly.

Re: Google is building a Chrome app-based development environment

#60

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #58
yeukhon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will be fair and the answer is no, but at least for the last 2-3 years we have a little stable environment. If it's ruby app we know it's rail, if it's Python we know it's either Django or Flask (or Pyramid). When we think about client side we think of jQuery and pure Javascript. I know there are coffee script lovers and I admit it's great that people coming up with new tools, but we have too much to digest. There…

> I will be fair and the answer is no, but at least for the last 2-3 years we have a little stable environment. If it's ruby app we know it's rail, if it's Python we know it's either Django or Flask (or Pyramid). When we think about client side we think of jQuery and pure Javascript. If you think that, then you're misguided.

[deleted]
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