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US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

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Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#191

Post by talmand »

jackmaney wrote: post #169
epsylon wrote: post #47

The comments here are atrocious. I expected more from HN than senseless French-bashing and 'Murica flag-waving. A few informations for context: - Two bloggers were fined, one French, and the American one for quoting the French. - The fine emanated from the Commission des Sanctions (sanction committee) of the AMF (Autorité des Marchés Financiers), the French stock market regulator. - It's supposed to be independent, b…

For your arrogant comment, I hereby fine you 100 bit coins and a copy of every game on Steam that I don't currently own. Any responses to this comment must be made in German and include an mp3 file of the responder reading aloud the written German in the most stereotypically shrill German accent possible.

Come on, that's so languagist. You should at least allow for something universal like Egyptian, Demotic, or Greek. That way the rest of us have a chance of translating it.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#192

Post by fharper1961 »

mpclark wrote: post #159
astrobe_ wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a misunderstanding. French press criticize the President 24/7. You can't insult the president or any other official in public, or any other French citizen. Just like in most other European countries, France lets you say what you want, as long as you don't spread lies or hatred.

That makes sense, and I'll be the first to admit my understanding of French law was not as clear as it should have been, but the line between "criticise" and "insult" is very fine. For instance, my understanding is that, in France, one should think twice before using the words "Mugabe" and "despot" in the same sentence. This is not a problem in the UK or the US at all. But maybe this is also part of what made France…

One of the main French newspapers recently wrote that Mugabe a despot. http://www.liberation.fr/monde/2013/07/31/au-zimbabwe-le-der...

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#193

Post by Tloewald »

jlgreco wrote: post #188
Tloewald wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was responding to someone who was cheerfully making anti-French statements because a US citizen was mistreated by some piece of the French government. This is no different (except in degree) from an Pakistani citizen (say) being killed by the US government, also outside its legal jurisdiction.

Both are bad (although obviously there is a discrepancy in seriousness here) . We should not fail to criticize one because the other also happens.

Yes but to make sweeping complaints about the French as an American is absurd. (And note that I myself pointed out that France has a serious problem with institutionalized corruption, not that the US has anything to crow about.)

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#194

Post by marcosdumay »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #166
Tloewald wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what appears to me to be an American (or USian to be more precise) complaining about France fining a US Blogger, so a direct comparison of the US to France is highly apropos.

Except that Mike Shedlock is not personally America and has no control of the actions of the American government. Also, there's only one nation in the world called "America," so it's plenty precise. The continents are "North America" and "South America," or jointly "the Americas." Posturing aside, I don't believe that a reasonable person is likely to confuse them.

> Also, there's only one nation in the world called "America,"

That's going way off topic, but I couldn't resist. I can't find such nation in the globe.

And the continent is called "America". There is even one country that formed by the union of several smaller ones that calls itself "United States of America" because it's located at this continent called "America".

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#195

Post by Dylan16807 »

Xylakant wrote: post #157
salient wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a crime was committed in france they can ask for extradition. But it wasn't "committed in France". This is getting ridiculous, not to mention extremely dangerous . A few more cases of these from the "democracies" of the world, and soon China will start demanding the same thing. "You said something bad about China online? We're just going to fine you, or ask for your extradition and arrest."

> "You said something bad about China online? We're just going to fine you, or ask for your extradition and arrest." Sure, that can happen. China can and might ask for extradition. This is however a different question from whether the USA will extradite. Extradition is usually denied in cases where the action in question was not a crime in the country that you're asking to extradite. Think about it: A German commits…

I don't understand the point of your hypothetical. A murder that physically took place in the USA is clearly "committed in the USA".

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#196

Post by bjelkeman-again »

epsylon wrote: post #177
axlez wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most reasonnable people in France, both left and right wing, find it ridiculous. That being said, being french, the level of defiance and incomprehension the people in charge in France show for the internet is beyond ridiculous, and border on dangerous.

> That being said, being french, the level of defiance and incomprehension the people in charge in France show for the internet is beyond ridiculous, and border on dangerous. Yes, but as the news show regularly, there's nothing specifically French towards lawmakers increasing will to control what is said and done on the internet. (The UK and the US come to mind, but there are plenty of other examples elsewhere) I'm F…

My experience is the most clued-up are in fact the Dutch. I am Swedish and live in Sweden, but work with the Dutch a lot.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#197

Post by Dylan16807 »

Spidler wrote: post #48
HeXetic wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the intended public wasn't French in this case? The guy is an English-language blogger.

If _one_ of the parties. In this case, the bank.

But they weren't a party until they sued; you're saying that France claims jurisdiction whenever a French national sues anyone anywhere in the world over any action?

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#198

Post by tokenizer »

cinquemb wrote: post #117

This might be pretty meta, but from looking at some of these comments makes me wonder how in the age of the internet, which give us a de facto global commons onto exchange ideas/information/currency and securely for those who take the steps to do so, some people still have an an affinity for whichever line drawn around them the sand in which one had no say in personally. Can we form something better through the afore…

If I understand you correctly, I think it has to do with the fact that their narratives don't align with the information. And that's only if the sources are credible (to them), the bias isn't obvious/against the readers bias, and the facts are presented clearly to them (presentation).

So the major barrier to what you & I enjoy as the internet for people to adopt in my opinion, are the communication barriers we all face everyday. You and I most likely are somewhat uncommon because more people are more apt to do their socializing in real life.

That said, we are seeing global communication at it's best. For instance, I'm an anarchist. But more specifically, and libertarian-socialist. One of my many hobbies is to argue with other political theory enthusiasts. More specifically, other Anarchists.

For such a small group of people, it would make more sense to band together in common ideology to become stronger (like the internet), but humans have a way with creating division where there ought not to be none IMO.

Would love you opinion on if removing this division in ourselves is possible, or if you don't believe that's universally true.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#199

Post by camus2 »

camus2 wrote: post #32

Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. Especially when it comes to crooked banks or politicians. France is a strange country that likes to give lessons about democracy to the rest of the world, but when you look at things closer, France is closer to a monarchy than a democracy. Everything is so centralised that information usually comes from an single source of truth, that journalist dont even bother ques…

for the record , i'm french, born in Angers, have spent time in USA and Canada. I love my country. Yet, having spent time abroad , helped me have a better understanding of my culture and its shortcomings. Sorry for the typos.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#200

Post by PhasmaFelis »

marcosdumay wrote: post #194
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Mike Shedlock is not personally America and has no control of the actions of the American government. Also, there's only one nation in the world called "America," so it's plenty precise. The continents are "North America" and "South America," or jointly "the Americas." Posturing aside, I don't believe that a reasonable person is likely to confuse them.

> Also, there's only one nation in the world called "America," That's going way off topic, but I couldn't resist. I can't find such nation in the globe. And the continent is called "America". There is even one country that formed by the union of several smaller ones that calls itself "United States of America" because it's located at this continent called "America".

> That's going way off topic, but I couldn't resist. I can't find such nation in the globe.

Are you also opposed to referring to the United Mexican States/Estados Unidos Mexicanos as simply "Mexico"?

Come to think, it's a little odd that you find "America," a word found in only one nation's name, to be imprecise, but are totally fine with "United States," which is found in two current and like ten historical nations.

> And the continent is called "America". There is even one country that formed by the union of several smaller ones that calls itself "United States of America" because it's located at this continent called "America".

On further reading, the definition of a "continent" is completely arbitrary, but dividing the Americas into two continents has been standard in the English-speaking world for ages. The single-continent standard used in the Hispanic world is equally arbitrary; you don't get to claim that your arbitrary standard is objectively correct but ours is cultural imperialism.

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