Freedom is dead.
US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
171–180 of 233 posts
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#172Hilarious. It baffles me how this country continues to operate given the massive public spending/benefits, delightful reforms (e.g. proposed 80% tax rate for high-earners) and pretty xenophobic view on immigration. ALL of my (highly-skilled) French friends do not plan to return in the foreseeable future.
>my (highly-skilled) French friends do not plan to return in the foreseeable future Selection bias alert! You're more likely to meet people who swore to never return than those don't mind returning.
Not to mention the fact that software engineering salaries are notoriously low in France compared to the US. Thus most people who have emigrated have strong financial incentives to stay there. (Well, at least until they have cancer and crappy insurance or they have to send their kids to college)
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#173The hypocrisy of the comments here is hilarious. This is exactly the same as the MPAA shutting down websites and fining people all over the world. All the people here crying "they have no jurisdiction!" are really just getting a taste what their own government has been doing to people all around the world for decades. Never mind 'Murica going around the world enforcing their laws and ideals with their armed forces.
I don't agree with the MPAA fines either, but I wouldn't say that copyright infringement is the same as free speech....
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
While the situation in TFA is spectacularly ridiculous and shameful for me as a french I don't think it warrants this kind of gratuitous french bashing. Unless of course you want to explain to us what the french taxation laws have to do with this particular court decision. Also it's 75%, not 80%. That might not be very significant overall but it makes me doubt you really know what you're talking about.
I guess my comment wasn't strictly limited to this court decision but I wouldn't consider it as French-bashing. I have nothing against your country and compatriots, and I have enjoyed many fun moments there. However, I and my two French flatmates are genuinely curious how France can continue on its current public-spending/entrepreneurship-throttling trajectory.
> However, I and my two French flatmates are genuinely curious how France can continue on its current public-spending/entrepreneurship-throttling trajectory.
Look at a graph of GDP per capita for France vs. other countries (Google will happily draw one for you if you search for "gdp per capita france" - for me it shows comparisons to UK and Germany)
As it happens, it turns out that the rather substantial aggressive changes to things like working hours and tax laws over the years in France that have caused predictions of doom and gloom have had little to no noticeable impact on GDP per capita - the trajectory for France, UK, Germany and other major European countries are only very minimally differentiated based on their economic policies.
That is how France can continue this.
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps the Mediterranean? They call it a "sea" if you want to be pedantic.
Yes they call it a sea, because it is not an ocean, I don't understand why you call me a pendant. More importantly though, you might not be following the news in Europe, but many immigrants try to cross the Mediterranean in order to get into Europe, and many unfortunately die. So it is not that it keeps anyone away.
I brought up the Mediterranean specifically because of the news reports I have heard about all the people dying while trying to cross. If "many unfortunately die", it sure as fuck seems to be keeping some people away, by killing them. I'll also assume that the serious danger of crossing the sea prevents some people from doing it.
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
France has no jurisdiction. U.S. courts will not enforce this civil judgment. Our 1A precludes them from doing so. And the blogger in question said he's not going to France. (BTW, a civil judgment is not "a crime by French law.")
It was not a civil judgment but a public one handled by an independant administrative authority with the power to pronounce sanctions (French public law is separate from both criminal and civil law and includes administrative law). It is not so much about free speech: the two guys have been fined for publishing incorrect information about the financial situation of a bank. It is more about financial regulation than f…
>I'm not so familiar with american law, but I'm pretty sure you got related situations (for example concerning the handling of sensitive financial information, or insider trading, etc.
We have laws that apply to stakeholders and insiders. As far as I know third parties are free to say or even make up anything they want, as long as it's not fraud or libel.
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#177The comments here are atrocious. I expected more from HN than senseless French-bashing and 'Murica flag-waving. A few informations for context: - Two bloggers were fined, one French, and the American one for quoting the French. - The fine emanated from the Commission des Sanctions (sanction committee) of the AMF (Autorité des Marchés Financiers), the French stock market regulator. - It's supposed to be independent, b…
I think most reasonnable people in France, both left and right wing, find it ridiculous. That being said, being french, the level of defiance and incomprehension the people in charge in France show for the internet is beyond ridiculous, and border on dangerous.
> That being said, being french, the level of defiance and incomprehension the people in charge in France show for the internet is beyond ridiculous, and border on dangerous.
Yes, but as the news show regularly, there's nothing specifically French towards lawmakers increasing will to control what is said and done on the internet. (The UK and the US come to mind, but there are plenty of other examples elsewhere)
I'm French myself and I am frankly appalled by our government's (and the previous ones), but let's be honest, the grass isn't much greener elsewhere. (Except perhaps in Scandinavian / northern countries?)
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#178The AFM has no jurisdiction over me, so they won't collect. As a US citizen living in the US, I am not subject to the absurdities of French laws, or French witch hunts. All they get from me is a vow to never go to France.
This was likely the desired outcome: a chilling effect. However, there is no need to be intimidated, Mr. Shedlock can still travel freely to France without worry. There are no debtors prisons, no credit rating agencies, and assets are difficult to seize outside of a criminal conviction for violent crimes. At worst, he will receive more letters in French.
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by "no jurisdiction over someone?" If a crime was committed in france they can ask for extradition. That would probably not result in anything in this case, but as long as it's a crime by french law committed in france the case may as well be valid. So all the court will check whether a punishable crime was committed in france. They could collect the fine when the blogger enters france or maybe, depe…
France has no jurisdiction. U.S. courts will not enforce this civil judgment. Our 1A precludes them from doing so. And the blogger in question said he's not going to France. (BTW, a civil judgment is not "a crime by French law.")
France, as any other country, decides for itself whether or not it has jurisdiction other than if/when the jurisdiction is decided through treaties.
E.g. I'm Norwegian - Norway claims jurisdiction for certain types of crimes worldwide for Norwegian citizens (quite a few other countries do too).
Enforcability is entirely separate from jurisdiction.
Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what appears to me to be an American (or USian to be more precise) complaining about France fining a US Blogger, so a direct comparison of the US to France is highly apropos.
Except that Mike Shedlock is not personally America and has no control of the actions of the American government. Also, there's only one nation in the world called "America," so it's plenty precise. The continents are "North America" and "South America," or jointly "the Americas." Posturing aside, I don't believe that a reasonable person is likely to confuse them.
I was responding to someone who was cheerfully making anti-French statements because a US citizen was mistreated by some piece of the French government. This is no different (except in degree) from an Pakistani citizen (say) being killed by the US government, also outside its legal jurisdiction.