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US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

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Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#91

Post by cantankerous »

Xylakant wrote: post #18
HeXetic wrote: post #3

I don't understand how this court system can be so silly as to fail to recognize that it has no jurisdiction over someone. Isn't the question of jurisdiction one of the first steps in any court case?

What do you mean by "no jurisdiction over someone?" If a crime was committed in france they can ask for extradition. That would probably not result in anything in this case, but as long as it's a crime by french law committed in france the case may as well be valid. So all the court will check whether a punishable crime was committed in france. They could collect the fine when the blogger enters france or maybe, depe…

> it's a crime by french law committed in france

Was this actually a crime or just a civil dispute?

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#92

Post by mcguire »

mpclark wrote: post #77
camus2 wrote: post #32

Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. Especially when it comes to crooked banks or politicians. France is a strange country that likes to give lessons about democracy to the rest of the world, but when you look at things closer, France is closer to a monarchy than a democracy. Everything is so centralised that information usually comes from an single source of truth, that journalist dont even bother ques…

This is sort of true. I ran a publication there for a few years and there are a lot of lines you cannot cross, lines that don't exist in the UK or the US. One I particularly remember (though I can't quote it exactly) is that you can (could?) be hauled into court for criticising heads of state, domestic or foreign.

Note that the UK has its own oddities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCA_v._Singh.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#93

Post by agilord »

I think Tim O'Reilly or Jeff Jarvis or Clay Shirky (unfortunately I don't have the bookmark anymore) already addressed this:

The case is a prime example that what you write is not only the jurisdiction where you write it, but also the jurisdiction where people read it. (And the jurisdiction where it stored and where it is going through as network traffic.)

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#94

Post by cobrausn »

Tloewald wrote: post #72
gnu8 wrote: post #2

I hereby fine Société Générale 8,000 bitcoins for violating the American constitution (never mind jurisdiction since they don't care for it either), notice duly served by posting this comment in a public forum and witnessed by whoever happens to read this.

Yeah the United States never does anything outside its jurisdiction that anyone else finds annoying. That said, the level of institutionalized corruption in France is pretty outrageous. If I recall correctly, the president of France receives a truck load of cash every year which can be used with zero accountability (and that's legal ). Of course the French (and pretty much any democratic country) can look at our elec…

Yeah the United States never does anything outside its jurisdiction that anyone else finds annoying.

Except we aren't talking about the US right now, we are talking about one particularly boneheaded action by France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#96

Post by logfromblammo »

salient wrote: post #45

These stupid short-sighted governments are going to ruin the Internet for the rest of us through their greed for money (like in this case) and power (NSA mass surveillance).

Some might argue that they already have ruined the Internet. National firewalls, massive endemic surveillance, and political-industrial shenanigans involving the telecoms controlling the backbones are a significant threat, and not trivial to route around. When powerful parties begin aggressively policing the content on the network instead of just controlling the infrastructure, that is just the evidence that we have already lost.

Viable efforts to decentralize, universally encrypt traffic, and support true identities alongside pseudonyms and anonymous users started too late to avoid stepping backwards on service quality while moving forward on network freedoms.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#97

Post by witek »

simias wrote: post #38
witek wrote: post #19

Hilarious. It baffles me how this country continues to operate given the massive public spending/benefits, delightful reforms (e.g. proposed 80% tax rate for high-earners) and pretty xenophobic view on immigration. ALL of my (highly-skilled) French friends do not plan to return in the foreseeable future.

While the situation in TFA is spectacularly ridiculous and shameful for me as a french I don't think it warrants this kind of gratuitous french bashing. Unless of course you want to explain to us what the french taxation laws have to do with this particular court decision. Also it's 75%, not 80%. That might not be very significant overall but it makes me doubt you really know what you're talking about.

I guess my comment wasn't strictly limited to this court decision but I wouldn't consider it as French-bashing. I have nothing against your country and compatriots, and I have enjoyed many fun moments there. However, I and my two French flatmates are genuinely curious how France can continue on its current public-spending/entrepreneurship-throttling trajectory.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#98

Post by bru »

witek wrote: post #88
bru wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised by such a comment, but finding it on HN saddens me. xenophoby? Oh USA, building a wall to keep your neighbours out of your lawn, please tell me more! Our economy? Of course American governement-sponsored 'liberalism' is a beacon for the free world, and dissidents are morons. Please have a look at this recent article by Paul Krugman: The Plot Against France[0]. Your high-skilled French friends? I hav…

I don't live in the US, I'm much closer - in London (apparently, the sixth largest French city). I'm not arguing the fact that it can be a lovely country for a French citizen and that you may want to retire there, given the generous benefits you'd be receiving. However, I know from a few of my friends, who were settling in France for personal reasons, how painful the immigration process can be, especially if you're n…

>you may want to retire there

Having kids and retiring usually do not happen at the same time.

>a few of my friends, who were settling in France for personal reasons

So they're not French. Your first comment is definitely wrong then.

I believe they were referencing the circulaire Guéant[0], which comes from the previous government, wronged many skilled workers & French companies as well -- it sets a 'national preference' for hiring.

0: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulaire_du_31_mai_2011

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#99

Post by throwaway092834 »

rguillebert wrote: post #42
simias wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the situation in TFA is spectacularly ridiculous and shameful for me as a french I don't think it warrants this kind of gratuitous french bashing. Unless of course you want to explain to us what the french taxation laws have to do with this particular court decision. Also it's 75%, not 80%. That might not be very significant overall but it makes me doubt you really know what you're talking about.

And it's the marginal tax rate (beyond 1 million €).

Worth noting the US top marginal tax rate has been above 90% at several points in history.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#100

Post by themodelplumber »

RyJones wrote: post #37
themodelplumber wrote: post #22

This coverage is going to get him more than 8KE worth of blog visitors. Particularly the "hey, this little blogger was sharp enough to uncover some real weird stuff on the part of SG" angle. Blog readers eat that up.

While Mish isn't as well known as Drudge, he isn't a little blogger. Just because he doesn't write about growth hacking his angular startup into YC doesn't mean he has no reach.

By "little blogger" I don't mean to compare him to other bloggers. I meant that he's little in comparison to French banks.
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