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Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

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Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#61

Post by pa5tabear »

kadabra9 wrote: post #23
jrs99 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

James Harden is may be the best shooting guard in the NBA right now. Jordan was the best shooting guard in his time.

I agree that Carlsen isn't quite at Kasparov's level of dominance yet (he's only 22), but the James Harden analogy is a poor one. Harden is a great player (say someone like Aronian in the chess world) but isn't quite a once in a generation talent like, say, Lebron James. I think it's quite fair to call Carlsen the Lebron James of chess.

So the greatest of all time? It's getting hard to argue LeBron is not...

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#62

Post by ZirconCode »

simfoo wrote: post #12

If you're interested in the match go watch Jerry on his channel on Youtube [0]. He's uploaded some great videos so far. He also livestreams the games on Twitch btw. [0] https://www.youtube.com/user/ChessNetwork/videos

Second, was about to post this. This guy is amazing. Entertaining and easy to follow, even for beginning players.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#63

Post by jrs99 »

jrs99 wrote: post #45
TylerE wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy that at all, no more so than the existence of motor vehicles have made track and field events irrelevant. If anything, wide accessibility of very strong computer engines only boosts the high-level game, as it enables very deep analysis - opening theory has moved quite a bit in the last 20-30 years.

track and field is largely irrelevant. Chess is pretty irrelevant, no matter how much i love it. avant-garde Novels are also irrelevant. What i mean is that a huge majority of gifted athletes will not be going into track and field. The best athletes aren't pro runners. I'm not saying that there aren't great runners who are athletes, just that soccer, and basketball will be taking a lot of the talent away from track.…

you choose to go into it when you see that you have a lot of talent in it and you enjoy playing it more than other games and it interests you. you have time to try out many games. Some will choose chess, others will choose Go. Chess was THE game during the cold war. if you were smart and you loved games, then you played chess. a lot.

Today, the game is poker.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#64

Post by mbreese »

pa5tabear wrote: post #61
kadabra9 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Carlsen isn't quite at Kasparov's level of dominance yet (he's only 22), but the James Harden analogy is a poor one. Harden is a great player (say someone like Aronian in the chess world) but isn't quite a once in a generation talent like, say, Lebron James. I think it's quite fair to call Carlsen the Lebron James of chess.

So the greatest of all time? It's getting hard to argue LeBron is not...

Except to those who saw Jordan play [1]. LeBron is probably a top 5 - all-time player, but his style is very different from Jordan, which makes comparisons difficult. He seems more like Magic and less like Mike.

People will always gravitate toward recent greatness being greater than those in the past. But, it's frankly impossible to teller cause we don't have enough context and emotional separation. Being able to say that we saw the greatest ever play is appealing because some of that greatness can then pass over to us by association. It's better to enjoy the greatness we see now and leave the comparisons for history. It is fun to think about though.

[1] I never saw Jordan live, which is something I regret.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#65

Post by kadabra9 »

jrs99 wrote: post #30
kzrdude wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allegedly Carlsen has said that he "didn't know anything about chess when I became world #1", reflecting over the amount he had learned since then. I don't understand what that can be, but I'm no chess player..

it may mean he went from being a more calculating type of player(tactical), which you can win many games with, to being a more positional type of player (strategical) which takes a much greater understanding of the game.

I'd agree with this. A few top players have stated that Carlsen is extremely difficult to prepare for, because he's capable of playing a wide range of openings, using obscure variations, and adjusting his play/style towards his opponent.

If you review his games over time, you'll noticed he's become a much more balanced player, capable of playing both extremely dangerous and tactical positions filled with traps, but also more quiet positions that aren't as sharp, but rich with strategic possibilities.

Many players tend to lean towards a specific "style" of play, but Carlsen has a rare gift to be able to adapt a variety of styles depending on his position and opponent.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#66

Post by deletes »

auctiontheory wrote: post #49
po wrote: post #32

During the press questioning the computer they were using froze up a bit and Anand became frustrated and rattled through his thinking out loud instead. The commentator then asks Anand something along the lines of "did you think through all of these complications?" and his response was a curt "no, I was thinking of what to eat tonight." "Yeah… so, do we have questions to the players?" oof... such high stakes and he ju…

his response was a curt "no, I was thinking of what to eat tonight." I was up at 5am to watch that. Embarrassing. Other great players (e.g. Kramnik) have lost tough matches with a lot more class.

Wait, so he wasn't being sarcastic? I wouldn't think someone at that level would be so insecure.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#67

Post by notacoward »

kadabra9 wrote: post #65
jrs99 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it may mean he went from being a more calculating type of player(tactical), which you can win many games with, to being a more positional type of player (strategical) which takes a much greater understanding of the game.

I'd agree with this. A few top players have stated that Carlsen is extremely difficult to prepare for, because he's capable of playing a wide range of openings, using obscure variations, and adjusting his play/style towards his opponent. If you review his games over time, you'll noticed he's become a much more balanced player, capable of playing both extremely dangerous and tactical positions filled with traps, but a…

FWIW, Fischer was also famous for this chameleon-like quality. Maybe it's something to do with reaching that level while still young.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#68

Post by sanoli »

dfan wrote: post #42
jrs99 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dfan, you make good points. But also we need to keep in mind that today's top players on an absolute level, really probably are better than previous era's top players. They simply have access to the past, and technology. More databases, more games played, internet giving opportunity to play many, many more games. Programs to analyze their play, coaching in the modern era, etc. That is something that Anand didn't real…

Yes, exactly! It is no insult to players from earlier eras that today's players have surpassed them, just as it is no insult to track and field athletes from earlier eras that their records don't still stand. Today's athletes have better equipment, better training, and better medicine, just as today's chess players have 24-hour access to computers better than any human and databases with millions of games. It would b…

Given today's level of obsession required to become #1 in any professional sport, I wonder what kind will be needed to be #1 in, say, 25 years. Have we reached some sort of pinnacle? I doubt it, but we probably thought these kind of athletes 30 years ago were already as perfectionists as they could be. P.S. I mean obsession in regards to hours devoted to training, practicing, building etc, not as a description of their personality, although it probably is present there in varying quantities.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#69

Post by pa5tabear »

auctiontheory wrote: post #49
po wrote: post #32

During the press questioning the computer they were using froze up a bit and Anand became frustrated and rattled through his thinking out loud instead. The commentator then asks Anand something along the lines of "did you think through all of these complications?" and his response was a curt "no, I was thinking of what to eat tonight." "Yeah… so, do we have questions to the players?" oof... such high stakes and he ju…

his response was a curt "no, I was thinking of what to eat tonight." I was up at 5am to watch that. Embarrassing. Other great players (e.g. Kramnik) have lost tough matches with a lot more class.

Isn't it obvious to assume that of course he thought through the complications, but that there was just apparent escape?

I can understand being frustrated by that question. Reporters for a chess championship should be more understanding of what it's like to play a tough match.

Re: Carlsen wins game 9, only needs 1 draw in 3 remaining games

#70

Post by pa5tabear »

trycatch wrote: post #54

By the way, there is a very interesting tournament going on currently -- TCEC, unofficial computer chess championship [1]. The main intrigue of the tournament is the fight between Stockfish and Komodo. Houdini, dominating engine in the last few years, already lost any chances to go into the superfinal -- two very strong challengers, Komodo and Stockfish, in the last few months were able to eat huge advantage of Houdi…

What are their ELO rating estimates?

I was a high school player and used to mess around with Rybka, but I haven't looked into computer chess in years.

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